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Thread: Matthew 22:24 Note file will not open and display in app

  1. #1

    Default Matthew 22:24 Note file will not open and display in app

    Howdy folks. I'll be brief:

    I have BW10 on Win10. Going through Matthew with notes in verse by verse mode, no note file for 22:24 displays on the Notes tab.

    One displays for v. 23, then that same display/note-file remains displayed when I go to v. 24, then the v. 25 file opens for v. 25.

    I see that a note file exists for v. 24 in the Matt folder, but it is empty. It is dated March 31, 2014.

    I see no textual doubts about v. 24.

    How can I get BW to open a file for v. 24, so that I can create notes on it?

    UPDATE: I tried entering text into that file and saving it, then seeing if it would display. No joy.
    Last edited by Dan Phillips; 02-03-2020 at 08:32 AM.

  2. #2
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    Hi Dan,
    I was able to replicate your experience.
    I think it is due to a quirk of the Notes system and verse mapping stuff -- it appears that the notes are actually attached to NRS verses (probably because NRS has the most complete set of apocryphal books).

    With NRS as my search version, I was able to create and retrieve a note for Mat 22:24; When I made BNT my search version, that note file did not retrieve. I noticed that when BNT was displaying Mat 22:24, NRS was displaying both verses 23 and 24, since they are both mapped to 24 (NRS puts the word "saying" into verse 23 instead of 24). Here are the two lines from NRS.vmf:
    Mat 22:23-24 Mat 22:23-24 GNT
    Mat 22:23 Mat 22:24 GNT

    Two of the possible ways to get access are:
    - make NRS your search version
    - remove the 2 rows for Mat 22:23 & 24 from the NRS verse mapping for Mat 22:24 using Tools/Options/Bible Versions/Verse Maps

    --Jim

  3. #3

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    Thanks, Jim, that's very helpful and good work.

    I've never messed with verse-mapping. I see I can Edit. Are you saying, just delete what's in the red box, and save it? or also delete what's in the green box?

    Again, many thanks.
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    Last edited by Dan Phillips; 02-04-2020 at 09:01 AM.

  4. #4
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    Deleting the green box is enough, but the red box is there only because of the green box -- so that verse 23 maps to both 23 & 24 in GNT. There is no harm to deleting the red box, but also no need to.

    And yes, then Save (be sure that the "Enable" box is checked).
    Actually, if you don't care about the NRS verse mappings, you could simply uncheck "Enable". I wouldn't recommend this; I don't know what the fallout might be. Mark Eddy, Mr. Verse Mapping, is probably the only person who could give you an authoritative answer.

    --Jim
    Last edited by Jim Wert; 02-03-2020 at 07:12 PM. Reason: add second paragraph

  5. #5

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    That worked. You are a Jedi Master, Jim. Thanks so much for taking the time.

  6. #6
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    Actually Jim gave a very authoritative answer.
    But for a little more information, if you disable a verse map file, the verses will display according to the same number as the original language (Hebrew, Greek) or in a few cases (in the apocrypha) NRS is the base text. For the many cases where there are only a few words overlap, this would not be a problem. But in the apocrypha the verse numbering is quite different in different translations of some books. So disabling a verse map file (especially NRS) would really mess things up. If you never use the apocrypha, you would still have a problem with the Psalms, since verse 1 of many Psalms in Hebrew is the title in English translations. So NRS would be a verse off (or even two verses off, e.g. in Psalm 51, which has two verses of "heading" in Hebrew). So if you want to use all the verse notes, but you do not want NRS to be your search version, you could delete those lines of the NRS verse map file such as Mat 2:23 Mat 2:24 GNT and get the use of your notes back. The way the notes work in such cases was not anticipated when the verse map system was created. I don't know if the retired programmer would be able to change that or not.
    Mark Eddy

  7. #7

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    Thanks, Mark that's useful info. Reading through the Heb OT I noted a number of places where the versification differed; that could be a problem!

    I know I've noted a few other places like this, where an individual file wasn't displayed for the corresponding verse. So I'll try to keep Jim's fix in mind for those situations.

  8. #8
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    Post Some further thoughts on verse notes and verse maps

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Wert View Post
    Actually, if you don't care about the NRS verse mappings, you could simply uncheck "Enable". I wouldn't recommend this; I don't know what the fallout might be. Mark Eddy, Mr. Verse Mapping, is probably the only person who could give you an authoritative answer.
    Further reflection, triggered by Mark's comments, allows me to see some of the fallout from disabling the NRS verse mappings.
    It would create a situation where, in the OT the WTT (and TNK, NETS, LXT, perhaps others) some verse numbers (and in some cases chapter numbers) are different from most English versions. In those cases, notes entered when WTT or WTM is your search versions would not be retrieved for the right verse when ESV or some other version is your search version, and vice versa.

    So for verse, and in a few cases chapter, notes to consistently show up for the right verse, regardless of your current search version, you need to have the NRS verse mappings enabled, even if you never use NRS. This is certainly true for the OT, especially in the Psalms, as Mark pointed out.
    One needs the verse mapping to make the notes work properly in these OT situations, at the cost of the problem you ran into when NRS chooses to use different verse boundaries than the search version you are using. (Some of the Greek databases, like SCR and BYZ, have some verse boundaries different from NA28. For example, in Mat 15:5,6 NRS follows NA28's (and SCR's) verse division, so if GNT, SCR, or NRS is your search version you can enter notes for both verses. If BYZ or KJV or ESV is your search version you can only enter a note for verse 5.)

    My conclusion -- for verse notes to work well some form of verse mapping is required. It would take someone much smarter than me to find a way to handle all cases. I'll just point out that there is a fairly significant phrase that switches between verses in the above example.

    --Jim

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