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Thread: How to create a list of verses that include a set of words (perhaps Strong's codes)

  1. #1

    Default How to create a list of verses that include a set of words (perhaps Strong's codes)

    Hi,

    I do not have much experience in Bible study or use of Excel or other tools in the way I'm asking about. I'd appreciate any comments on how to do this or factors that others use or that might make this work better.

    Recently I was working on a project (and maybe still am) and wanted to create a list of verses that included a Hebrew word. It would have been more helpful if I could have made the list based on a few different related Hebrew words. Some factors that seemed useful (and which I partly had to just do step-by-step or not do at all; in other words, the tools I tried to export from did not seem to allow all of these factors in a one-step export) was to

    1. bring the list into Excel (see *note)
    2. have columns for verse reference, the verse, columns for classifying the use of the verse
    3. I would have liked to have indicated in the English verse what the Strong's number was and what word it applied to (if nothing else, showing a transcription of the Hebrew word with the English translation would have been better than just having the English. The reason for needing the Strong's or the transcription was making evident what word in the verse WAS the reason the verse was included in the list).

    An example of how a verse might appear (pieced together translation) is

    Isaiah 59:14 So justice (h4941) retreats backward, and rightness is standing far off; for stability stumbles in the square, and straightforwardness cannot enter.

    Some things that didn't seem to work as well as I had hoped

    1. had to stay with the Concordant translation that I was using (I used a Concordant database program that let me search for the Strong's number and copy the verses and didn't have an option on translation; that was ok in my opinion, however the dynamic option of being able to see different translations at this point would have been nice)
    2. when I would try to sort in Excel, I wasn't confident in keeping the rows sorted together and being able to efficiently and precisely unsort or resort (the list didn't have to be in Excel, but I would like columns and sorting on column data)
    3. it might have been nice to have a more easily readable format than Excel
    4. it would be nice to be able to sort by sequential appearance in the Bible (not just alphabetically by Bible book name); I think I was considering and added but did not really use a sequence number for getting back to the Bible books order
    5. the list had blank lines between the rows with data which made it easier to read in Excel but were distracting in the sorting step

    *note "bringing the list into Excel" was not straightforward even if it was more efficient than even copying and pasting. The software tool that I used (I did not have BW then and still would not yet know how to do any of this in BW, so that is of interest to me) let me search the Old Testament for the Strong's code; then I had to copy verse by verse using commands (but not selecting and copying); then I copied that overall list into Word; created a Word macro to put the verse reference, tab, verse; imported that list into Excel; added a few other columns to the Excel listing

    When I was categorizing how the word was used, I started creating a drop-down list to assign categories from (there's a way to do that in Excel) and I'd revise it as I discovered a new term that I thought to assign and so wanted in the list. Working with the list of verses in this way seemed interesting, but to my surprise it seemed more like the reading knowledge (simply reading the list of verses; not the assigning of categories) was what gave me more confidence in understanding.

    Have a nice day
    John

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    701

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    Hi John,

    Your message was not quite clear to me as to what you would like to accomplish. BibleWorks contains a full Hebrew text, so you can search on any Hebrew word that you wish, and it highlights the words found. It automatically makes a list of verses that contain these words. Each verse in your search hits can be displayed om the Browse Window in any version you wish for comparison purposes. (BTW, I have not yet seen a Strong's tagged text that will provide as accurate a search as searching the actual Hebrew text.)

    This leads me to ask this question: what do you wish to accomplish by creating a spreadsheet containing specific verses? Why is this layout important? Can your goal be accomplished by using the tools within BibleWorks rather than exporting the text? I ask this question so that I might be able to provide a solution to your end goal, if possible.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Glenn Weaver

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Weaver View Post
    Hi John,

    Your message was not quite clear to me as to what you would like to accomplish. BibleWorks contains a full Hebrew text, so you can search on any Hebrew word that you wish, and it highlights the words found. It automatically makes a list of verses that contain these words. Each verse in your search hits can be displayed om the Browse Window in any version you wish for comparison purposes. (BTW, I have not yet seen a Strong's tagged text that will provide as accurate a search as searching the actual Hebrew text.)

    This leads me to ask this question: what do you wish to accomplish by creating a spreadsheet containing specific verses? Why is this layout important? Can your goal be accomplished by using the tools within BibleWorks rather than exporting the text? I ask this question so that I might be able to provide a solution to your end goal, if possible.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Hi Glenn,

    Thank you for the note. When I started creating the spreadsheet I hoped that I could classify the uses of my word (mispat) with a few factors (columns) such as "how is the word used" (for mispat, that could be: make a judicial decision, take an intervening action, do what God's word says, and so on; each use could differ--that was what I was thinking for that column); who is the audience (kings, judges, elders, whosoever will); who does mispat in the verse (that might not have been so useful, given the audience column). I even hoped I would discover more ways to distinguish the uses. However, the uses seemed to fairly strongly correspond to the English words that mispat is translated as

    I was disappointed in the sorting of the Excel spreadsheet. I had thought I could easily sort by multiple columns (sort by Column A, then within that sort, by Column B) however I was not seeing that effect. (I don't have much experience with Excel.) Also, my spreadsheet had intervening blank lines from how I imported my text verses, so the sort result sorted those blank lines too. In addition, I found that I wanted to keep track of the initial verse reference sorting (in Bible order) and so I would usually just try a sort on one column, freezing the rows (so that the rows would go with that column sort) and then undo back to my original listing.

    I also would have liked to see "this is the word in the verse" that matches the search. By the time I got my verses (from the method I used) they did not indicate what the keyword was within each verse. Putting the Strong's code beside the word or giving any indication (highlighting or underlining) would have been helpful. I believe I was using the tool called ISA3 (at http://www.scripture4all.org/download/download_ISA3.php ) to search and copy verses. I enjoyed the use of that tool. That was before I got BibleWorks. It let me view my starting verse (where I would see my keyword used) and then let me click on the word and set up a search. I could search for (I assume) the exact letters of the Hebrew use in that verse or the Strong's code for the word. It seemed in that case that the Strong's code found more uses of the word (though probably not all spelled exactly the same). I have very little knowledge of Hebrew yet.

    I partly sent out my statement in case someone might comment "yes, that is helpful for the following kinds of cases" or "you might try x instead of y" or "Excel can sort better if you do abc". I think I mentioned that I was surprised that the basic reading of the verses was what seemed to give me a stronger sense of how the word was used, not so much "clarifying the use in the spreadsheet".

    Have a nice day
    John

  4. #4

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    Hi,

    Thank you for the note. I thought I had (think I had) responded earlier (many days ago) and do not see my response. Was my response seen? (I'm not sure how I am supposed to use the Title field; do I need to re-type the thread title?)

    Have a nice day
    John

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Hi John,

    I'm sorry for missing your thread post earlier.

    I suggest trying to use the tools already within BibleWorks to accomplish your purposes, without exporting the verses to Excel. I think that the tools and texts in BibleWorks will give you richer insights this way and ultimately be easier to use.

    For example, you can search using the Command Line or via the Browse Window context menus to search for words. Then you can save the Search Window results as a Verse List using the Verse List Manager. This list of verses is always in the normal Biblical book order, so you won't have to try to sort the verses in that order. You can create and save multiple verse lists, and open and use them at will, including importing them back to the Search Window as needed. From there you can display the verses in the Browse Window and compare versions and use the lexicons in the Analysis Window.

    You can also use the UserLex Tab to record all of your observations about any given word. You can great categories of word usage and lists of verses just like is found in the Greek and Hebrew lexicons. It sounds to me that this type of functionality is perfect for what you are trying to do.

    I suggest spending some time getting to know the features of BibleWorks. Investigate the menus, read the Help file, and watch the YouTube videos. I think you will find a lot of ways of working with the Biblical text that will enrich your Bible study.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Glenn Weaver

  6. #6

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    Hi Glenn,

    Thank you for the note!

    Have a nice day
    John

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