Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Hebrew search

  1. #1

    Default Hebrew search

    I have come across what seems to be a strange construction that editors want to emend. I would like to do the following search verb (imperative) followed by waw consecutive and verb (perfect 3 person plural) and see if there are any other verses than Jeremiah 50:5 that use this construction.

    Thanks in advance,

    Ron Snider
    Ron Snider,
    Pastor-teacher, Makarios Bible Church

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    787

    Default

    I'm not as familiar with Hebrew searching in such depth, but I'm sure someone will pop in here with the proper search command; the results would be interesting. I just want to note that the reading of the Massoretic Text (which does seem grammatically peculiar) is not found in most of the ancient versions: Targum, LXX, and Vulgate all have "they will come," which is followed by most modern translations (I think). Only the Peshitta Syriac follows MT. So there may indeed be an issue in the textual tradition that has produced this sequence.
    David Rensberger
    Atlanta, Georgia

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    450

    Default

    If I understand you correctly, you can do it as a simple command line search in WTM: '*@v?q* ן *@v?v*

    In case you can't tell, that is a waw between the two verbs.

    I come up with 38 hits for this particular string.
    καὶ ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν ἵνα οἱ ζῶντες μηκέτι ἑαυτοῖς ζῶσιν, ἀλλὰ τῷ ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν ἀποθανόντι καὶ ἐγερθέντι.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    If I understand you correctly, you can do it as a simple command line search in WTM: '*@v?q* ן *@v?v*

    In case you can't tell, that is a waw between the two verbs.

    I come up with 38 hits for this particular string.
    I copied your string to the command line in WTM and brought up the GSE and got zero hits. All three forms came up with the message "the following word or form cannot be found in the current search version. Could you send me the list of verses that you found?

    Thanks,
    Ron Snider
    Ron Snider,
    Pastor-teacher, Makarios Bible Church

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsnider View Post
    I copied your string to the command line in WTM and brought up the GSE and got zero hits. All three forms came up with the message "the following word or form cannot be found in the current search version. Could you send me the list of verses that you found?
    Copying and pasting wouldn't work. At least you would need to retype the waw.

    I ran the search again, and these are the hits:
    Exo. 3:16
    12:32
    19:24
    Deu. 12:28
    Jos. 6:10
    Jud. 4:6
    11:6
    21:10
    20
    1 Sam. 3:9
    15:3
    18
    16:5
    22:5
    23:2
    2 Sam. 7:5
    13:5
    14:30
    1 Kin. 19:11
    22:12
    15
    2 Kin. 20:5
    1 Chr. 14:10
    17:4
    21:10
    2 Chr. 18:11
    Isa. 6:9
    20:2
    Jer. 18:2
    50:5
    Eze. 20:20
    21:14
    33
    29:3
    30:2
    34:2
    36:3
    37:12
    καὶ ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν ἵνα οἱ ζῶντες μηκέτι ἑαυτοῖς ζῶσιν, ἀλλὰ τῷ ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν ἀποθανόντι καὶ ἐγερθέντι.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Copying and pasting wouldn't work. At least you would need to retype the waw.

    I ran the search again, and these are the hits:
    Exo. 3:16
    12:32
    19:24
    Deu. 12:28
    Jos. 6:10
    Jud. 4:6
    11:6
    21:10
    20
    1 Sam. 3:9
    15:3
    18
    16:5
    22:5
    23:2
    2 Sam. 7:5
    13:5
    14:30
    1 Kin. 19:11
    22:12
    15
    2 Kin. 20:5
    1 Chr. 14:10
    17:4
    21:10
    2 Chr. 18:11
    Isa. 6:9
    20:2
    Jer. 18:2
    50:5
    Eze. 20:20
    21:14
    33
    29:3
    30:2
    34:2
    36:3
    37:12
    Lee, thanks so much but that search missed the fact that I am looking for a second person imperative followed by a waw consecutive with a third person verb. In Jeremiah 50:5, the form is a qal imperative followed by a waw consecutive and a niphal perfect third person plural. I would like to see if any 2 pl imperative is followed by a third person verbal form. It looks like your search finds plenty of imperatives followed by 2 person plural verbs but that kinda misses my point.

    Thanks for your help and if you can construct that search, I would like to know how.

    Regards,
    Ron Snider,
    Pastor-teacher, Makarios Bible Church

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsnider View Post
    I have come across what seems to be a strange construction that editors want to emend. I would like to do the following search verb (imperative) followed by waw consecutive and verb (perfect 3 person plural) and see if there are any other verses than Jeremiah 50:5 that use this construction.
    '@v?q3?p* {waw} *@v?v*
    gives me 2 hits: Jer 50:5 & Eze 20:20 (which is piel rather than qal)

    Later you rephrased your request to not require the last verb to be plural:
    I am looking for a second person imperative followed by a waw consecutive with a third person verb.
    For this, just remove the "?p"
    '@v?q3* {waw} *@v?v*
    which gives 5 additional hits. 1 Sam. 3:9; 2 Sam. 13:5; 1 Ki. 22:12, 15; 2 Chr. 18:11; Jer. 50:5; Ezek. 20:20

    If the first verb must be qal imperative, the query looks like this:
    '@v?q3* {waw} *@vqv*
    for which I get two hits: 1 Sam. 3:9; Jer. 50:5

    Hope this is helpful.

    --Jim

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ronsnider View Post
    Lee, thanks so much but that search missed the fact that I am looking for a second person imperative followed by a waw consecutive with a third person verb. In Jeremiah 50:5, the form is a qal imperative followed by a waw consecutive and a niphal perfect third person plural. I would like to see if any 2 pl imperative is followed by a third person verbal form. It looks like your search finds plenty of imperatives followed by 2 person plural verbs but that kinda misses my point.

    Thanks for your help and if you can construct that search, I would like to know how.
    Sorry, Ron. You didn't mention that you wanted the imperative to be 2nd person, and I missed your mention of a 3rd person plural for the 2nd verb. It looks like Jim gets it for you.

    Do you have Command Line Morphology Help turned on? This would be much simpler for you if you could do the search yourself. Right click in the command line, then make sure Command Line Morphology Help is checked, and it will walk you through each step of a morphological search.
    καὶ ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν ἵνα οἱ ζῶντες μηκέτι ἑαυτοῖς ζῶσιν, ἀλλὰ τῷ ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν ἀποθανόντι καὶ ἐγερθέντι.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •