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Thread: GSE question: Kosmos without preceeding article

  1. #1
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    Default GSE question: Kosmos without preceeding article

    dear friends, I have problems to get results for the Word X (in my case Kosmos) without a preceeding article. The problem is, that using the word order does not allow the "not-operator", can you help? Peter
    Last edited by Peter; 10-31-2017 at 06:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2004
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    Hi Peter,

    You can use the Command Line to search with a NOT operator, or you can use the Graphical Search Engine (GSE) with a NOT operator. With the Command Line search you will need to run two searches, as the article can be seperated from KOSMOS by a conjunction.

    Here are both Command Line searches, one to handle articles immediately next to KOSMOS, and the other for when the article is one word away. (I am using transliteration, rather than the Greek text.) Both searches use the BGM morphology version:

    '!*@d* KOSMOS@*
    '!*@d* *1 KOSMOS@*

    You can enter these (one at a time) on the Command Line, and then press the 'F9' key to open the GSE with a prepopulated search.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Glenn Weaver

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Weaver View Post
    Hi Peter,

    You can use the Command Line to search with a NOT operator, or you can use the Graphical Search Engine (GSE) with a NOT operator. With the Command Line search you will need to run two searches, as the article can be seperated from KOSMOS by a conjunction.

    Here are both Command Line searches, one to handle articles immediately next to KOSMOS, and the other for when the article is one word away. (I am using transliteration, rather than the Greek text.) Both searches use the BGM morphology version:

    '!*@d* KOSMOS@*
    '!*@d* *1 KOSMOS@*

    You can enter these (one at a time) on the Command Line, and then press the 'F9' key to open the GSE with a prepopulated search.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Dear Glenn, thank you! May I ask the following: how shall I combine the two needed searches, so that I get one list of hits - with the Vers List Manager? Is it possible to do that with one search in the GSE? Here I had problems, as I tried a "Not Article Box" followed by the Word box with Kosmos within 2 or 3 words - there I got an error message that this is not possible, I mean, a word order search with a not-box.
    Thanks again for your help! Peter

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Dear Glenn, thank you! May I ask the following: how shall I combine the two needed searches, so that I get one list of hits - with the Vers List Manager? Is it possible to do that with one search in the GSE? Here I had problems, as I tried a "Not Article Box" followed by the Word box with Kosmos within 2 or 3 words - there I got an error message that this is not possible, I mean, a word order search with a not-box.
    Thanks again for your help! Peter
    Peter, the easiest thing to do is run the first command line search, then export the search results into the verse list manager, then run the second command line search and add those results to the verse list manager as well, which already contains the first search group. This combines both results into the verse list manager. Then save the file and you can always have it at your disposal.

  5. #5
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    Hi Peter,

    Scott's suggestion is a great one. It is the right way to do it for most cases.

    However, in this case there is another way to do it, as well. Try this Command Line search:

    '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;2

    This search specifies that an article cannot appear either the word immediately before KOSMOS, or two words before KOSMOS. The ;2 specifies that the search can cross verse boundaries, which will happen if KOSMOS is the first or second word in the next verse.

    Open this search in the GSE to see how the GSE constructs the search.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Glenn Weaver

  6. #6
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    Dear Glenn, dear Adelphos,
    that is what I call real help - I know now how to do this and did understand, what you wrote. I am happy now. The good thing was, that you responded quickly. THANK YOU! Peter

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default More ways to skin the cat

    Glenn first suggested these 2 queries:
    '!*@d* KOSMOS@*
    '!*@d* *1 KOSMOS@*
    The second one doesn't work (once you remove the "1"), because it includes all cases where the 2nd word is *@d*.

    Glenn's second suggestion works very nicely:
    '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;2
    I got the same result, much more clumsily, by going to
    Main Menu
    Tools
    Options
    Miscellaneous
    and setting Search Context to "1"
    (quoting BW help: "This parameter allows you to define the default verse context setting for BibleWorks AND type word searches and Linear String Searches. When you do an AND type word search on more than one word or a Linear String Search, the search will find all verses that contain all the specified words within the specified number of verses.")
    Then the Linear String Search
    ;!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*
    gave the desired result.

    There are 2 verses in the LXX that begin with kosmos; there are 2 verses in the LXX that have kosmos as the second word. (I used GSE, setting the position parameter in Word Box Options, to find them). These 4 verses show up in the Search Window as the previous verse (BW reports Sir 21:20, where kosmos is the second word in Sir 21:21) because the found string of 3 words beings in the previous verse.

    GSE (at least for me) will not run the
    '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;2
    query. However, if you drop off the ";2" it works fine so long as you make sure that the "Cross verse boundaries" flag is set on. (you can toggle it by double clicking on "Cross vs." in the status bar of the GSE window).

    I noticed one interesting quirk. I ran 5 versions of the search, from the command line, with search version BGM:

    1. '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*
      gave me 48 verses, including the 2 LXX verses that had kosmos as the second word. It got the verse numbers of those 2 right, not using the previous verse number. Ran instantaneously.
    2. '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;1 Ran leisurely.
      gave me 46 verses, excluding the 4 LXX verses that had kosmos as the first or second word.
    3. '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;2 Ran leisurely.
      gave me 50 verses, including the 4 LXX verses that had kosmos as the first or second word, but naming the previous verse.
    4. ;*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@* setting Search Context to "0" Ran leisurely.
      gave me 46 verses, excluding the 4 LXX verses that had kosmos as the first or second word.
    5. ;*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@* setting Search Context to "1" Ran leisurely.
      gave me 50 verses, including the 4 LXX verses that had kosmos as the first or second word.


    So the first search appears to have gone one, and only one, word into the preceding verse.
    From the speed of searches, it looked like the ;2 changed the second and third searches from PHRASE search to Linear PHRASE search.

    --Jim

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Wert View Post
    Glenn first suggested these 2 queries:
    '!*@d* KOSMOS@*
    '!*@d* *1 KOSMOS@*
    The second one doesn't work (once you remove the "1"), because it includes all cases where the 2nd word is *@d*.

    Glenn's second suggestion works very nicely:
    '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;2
    I got the same result, much more clumsily, by going to
    Main Menu
    Tools
    Options
    Miscellaneous
    and setting Search Context to "1"
    (quoting BW help: "This parameter allows you to define the default verse context setting for BibleWorks AND type word searches and Linear String Searches. When you do an AND type word search on more than one word or a Linear String Search, the search will find all verses that contain all the specified words within the specified number of verses.")
    Then the Linear String Search
    ;!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*
    gave the desired result.

    There are 2 verses in the LXX that begin with kosmos; there are 2 verses in the LXX that have kosmos as the second word. (I used GSE, setting the position parameter in Word Box Options, to find them). These 4 verses show up in the Search Window as the previous verse (BW reports Sir 21:20, where kosmos is the second word in Sir 21:21) because the found string of 3 words beings in the previous verse.

    GSE (at least for me) will not run the
    '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;2
    query. However, if you drop off the ";2" it works fine so long as you make sure that the "Cross verse boundaries" flag is set on. (you can toggle it by double clicking on "Cross vs." in the status bar of the GSE window).

    I noticed one interesting quirk. I ran 5 versions of the search, from the command line, with search version BGM:

    1. '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*
      gave me 48 verses, including the 2 LXX verses that had kosmos as the second word. It got the verse numbers of those 2 right, not using the previous verse number. Ran instantaneously.
    2. '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;1 Ran leisurely.
      gave me 46 verses, excluding the 4 LXX verses that had kosmos as the first or second word.
    3. '!*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@*;2 Ran leisurely.
      gave me 50 verses, including the 4 LXX verses that had kosmos as the first or second word, but naming the previous verse.
    4. ;*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@* setting Search Context to "0" Ran leisurely.
      gave me 46 verses, excluding the 4 LXX verses that had kosmos as the first or second word.
    5. ;*@d* !*@d* KOSMOS@* setting Search Context to "1" Ran leisurely.
      gave me 50 verses, including the 4 LXX verses that had kosmos as the first or second word.


    So the first search appears to have gone one, and only one, word into the preceding verse.
    From the speed of searches, it looked like the ;2 changed the second and third searches from PHRASE search to Linear PHRASE search.

    --Jim
    Dear Jim, interesting, I think we can think of a Phd (at least) in Bibleworks for you (or a BW-Prof. would be far better), that are the depths of the Programm. I learned more. One rooky question, the number after the query, say ";1" does tell the Programm how many verses to include, right? Maranatha! Peter

  9. #9
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    One rooky question, the number after the query, say ";1" does tell the Programm how many verses to include, right? Maranatha! Peter
    Yes. Appending ";n", where n is a number, after a search specification, tells BW how many contiguous verses to search. This applies to both Phrase Searches, and AND searches.

    The "Search Context" that you can set on the Miscellaneous options window seems to say how many additional verses to search, so this number is 1 less than the one in ";n" on the Command Line.

    If you haven't already looked at them, some sections of BW help can be very helpful for Command Line searches (if sometimes a little difficult to understand).
    Section "43 Command Line - Examples" is displayed if you press F1 with your mouse pointer in the Command Line. It illustrates most, perhaps all, the things you can do, with short descriptions.
    Section "40 Command Line - Introduction" is more of a reference document, giving more detailed descriptions of what the different constructions do.

    --Jim

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