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Thread: qal perfect Num 3cp 9:23 Shamru/Shamaru

  1. #1

    Default qal perfect Num 3cp 9:23 Shamru/Shamaru

    Hi

    I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this,

    but

    In my grammar books, the Qal Perfect 3cp for a strong root like Shamar - Is Shin with Kamatz, Mem with Shwa, Reish, Waw with shurook. Note the Mem with Shwa.

    In Numbers 9:23 Shin Mem Reish Waw appears, and both bible desktop and my OT parsing guide, say it's Kal perfect 3cp.

    But instead of what i'd expect which is what the grammar books say for shamar in the qal perfect 3cp

    The word in the tenach Numbers 9:23 is not Shamru, it's Shamaru. Shin kamatz, Mem kamatz, reish shurook.

    My grammar book doesn't cover Mem Kamatz, as a form of Kal perfect 3cp

    What am I missing here regarding the gammar of the kal perfect?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Default It's a Pausal form

    שָׁמָ֔רוּ in numbers 9:23 is in pausal form.
    That's why it looks different from what you saw in your grammar. Good catch by the way!
    And, this form appears only five times in the Tanakh/Hebrew Bible.
    In BibleWorks you can run vowel point and accent mark sensitive searches to find examples of particular spellings.
    If, you have hard copy of the BHS the Massorah Parva will alert you to important road signs like this and then you can either use BibleWorks to search for them or you can turn to the Massorah Magna/Massorah Gedolah to find examples. If, you have BibleWorks 10 then you also have images the Leningrad Codex and you can veiw both the Massorah Parva and the Massorah Magna in the images too. Here below is an image of the printed Massorah Gedolah (not in BibleWorks):



    Name:  Massorah.png
Views: 487
Size:  31.7 KB

    If, you have a copy of J. Weingreen's A practical Grammar For Classical Hebrew turn to page 21 and page 137 and you will find a short but decent discussion of Pausal forms and you will even seeשָׁמָ֔רוּ as an example. Below, I have posted a picture of BibleWorks' A practical Grammar for Classical Hebrew module:
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by bkMitchell; 08-31-2015 at 05:48 AM.
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


  3. #3

    Default Masora

    Thanks, that's amazing. I have Weingreen, I may have to get a Masora.. Who publishes it?

    I have a book by Page Kelley on the Masora, but I don't have the Masora itself

    I see this book on Amazon

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Biblia-Hebra...eywords=masora

    But it mentions that it uses a variant

    Who publishes the masora, and is it available online?

    Thanks

  4. #4
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    Sep 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bkMitchell View Post
    שָׁמָ֔רוּ in numbers 9:23 is in pausal form.
    That's why it looks different from what you saw in your grammar. Good catch by the way!
    And, this form appears only five times in the Tanakh/Hebrew Bible.
    In BibleWorks you can run vowel point and accent mark sensitive searches to find examples of particular spellings.
    If, you have hard copy of the BHS the Massorah Parva will alert you to important road signs like this and then you can either use BibleWorks to search for them or you can turn to the Massorah Magna/Massorah Gedolah to find examples. If, you have BibleWorks 10 then you also have images the Leningrad Codex and you can veiw both the Massorah Parva and the Massorah Magna in the images too. Here below is an image of the printed Massorah Gedolah (not in BibleWorks):



    Name:  Massorah.png
Views: 487
Size:  31.7 KB

    If, you have a copy of J. Weingreen's A practical Grammar For Classical Hebrew turn to page 21 and page 137 and you will find a short but decent discussion of Pausal forms and you will even seeשָׁמָ֔רוּ as an example. Below, I have posted a picture of BibleWorks' A practical Grammar for Classical Hebrew module:
    Great answer, Brian!

  5. #5

    Default

    It certainly is a great answer! Thanks Brian

    Do you have any suggestions for where I can get a Masora?

    I found this on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Torah-Neviim-U...s=masora+prava

    But apparently it's different, it's a different version of the text. Leningradensia and not Leningradensis..

    I'm interested in all the Masora data, so Masora Parva, Masora Magma, Masora Gedolah

  6. #6

    Default

    It certainly is a great answer. Thanks Brian

    I'm interested in getting a Masora.. I'm interested in all the data- Masora Magna, Masora Parva, Masora Gedolah

    I've read of a book by Aron Dotan but apparently it's a different version -
    Leningradensia and not Leningradensis

    Do you know a publisher of one?

    Thanks






  7. #7
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    Nov 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphza View Post


    I've read of a book by Aron Dotan but apparently it's a different version - Leningradensia and not Leningradensis
    In, the USA the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) Aron Dotan edited was published under the name: Biblia Hebraica Leningradensia (link)
    That work is not the Masorah, and contains neither the Massorah Parva nor the Massorah Magna. (Aron Dotan has published an electronic Masorah Database through Accordance Bible Software.)

    BibleWorks 10 has the actually images/Digital Photos of the Leningrad manuscript (which does have Massorah Parva and Magna):
    Last edited by bkMitchell; 09-02-2015 at 06:36 AM.
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ralphza View Post
    ...

    I'm interested in getting a Masora.. I'm interested in all the data- Masora Magna, Masora Parva, Masora Gedolah


    Do you know a publisher of one?

    Thanks


    Yes, first if you do not already have a printed edition BHS get one, it has an edited version of the Masorah Parva in the margins.
    It isn't my favorite Hebrew Bible edition, but is is virtual indispensable because of some of it's features. (not so expensive)
    The new BHQ is still a work in progress and it will include both the Masorah Parva and Magna in one volume when it is finnished.

    Second, The Masorah of the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia: Introduction and Annotated Glossary. (link) Is the best place in English to start your study of the Masorah very useful and worth much more than they are charging for it! (Cheap!)Also, here is the modern classic on the subject: Introduction to the Tiberian Masorah (Masoretic Studies) (link)

    Thrid, if you can find and aford the Massorah Gedolah: Juxta Codicem Leningradensem B 19 a get it it is linked to the BHS via a number system. (link) or (link) (VERY expesive) Alternatively, another Biblesoftware company has an electroic version of this same work, but it is good to have the Massorah in Paper version.

    If, your Hebrew is good then you can get the Jerusalem Crown's Version of the Masorah of the Aleppo Codex here (link)(okay price)

    Alternatively, you can find a free version of Ginsburg's Massorah here: (Link)
    That page claims it is a Hebrew Bible with Massorah, but that is incorrect, it is simply a complied catalogue of Masoretic list. (FREE)

    The above should get you started
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


  9. #9

    Default Thanks for the info, bkMitchell

    I appreciate the time you took to write up your suggestions. Thank you very much.

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