BW9 installation forced Flash installation and crashes the browser

[brainout]

EDIT: I lost all the days since this post, trying to undo the damage done by Bibleworks insisting on installing Macromedia Flash Player 10. Finally had to uninstall BW9 completely. Just now I tried to reinstall it again, having to type in all those CODES (which NO cannot be just pasted in, as they have four-code boxes which have to be TYPED) -- and OMITTED the videos, so to avoid forced installation of Flash Player. But NO it forced itself on my machine anyway. So I aborted the installation, when the dialogue box said 'click okay' to install it. BUT IT WAS INSTALLED ANYWAY, and the setup was aborted.

So now I have to uninstall BW9 AGAIN, and maybe lose another 3 days undoing the damage. WHY INFLICT THIS ON US?? Going back to BW5. Note: this problem does not occur in XP, only in Win7. WRECKS THE MACHINE, requires many searchings for the Macromedia entries to totally wipe it out.

Guess I cannot use BW9 on any Windows 7 machine, as I don't know how to STOP it from installing Macromedia Flash. Very unhappy camper.
=============
This is a heads-up to ask that the next time BW is updated to a new version, to OMIT forced installation of Macromedia Flash Player. I just installed BW9 on one of my machines, and having never seen the videos, made the colossal mistake of installing them to my big hard drive. That was about 8pm. It's now 6:19 am CT, and I'm still cleaning the mess that installation created, since it installed an OLD version of Flash, wiping out what I had, trashing Firefox, and a bunch of other problems.

So please, in future editions, do NOT force installation of the media player. You don't know what will be current when a user installs, and Adobe is notorious for hanging up machines when an older installation replaces a newer one.

[Dale A. Brueggemann]

This is a heads-up to ask that the next time BW is updated to a new version, to OMIT forced installation of Macromedia Flash Player.

This heads-up is probably useful on the forum; and I'll watch for it myself.

So please, in future editions, do NOT force installation of the media player.

This should be sent to BW service; we forum members don't exactly control how installs work ;o) You did us a favor with the heads-up, doubled-down on that favor by sending this last bit of requires to the BW service.

[jskern]

I haven't received BW9 yet (just bought it 2 days ago), so what should i be careful NOT to do when I'm loading it?

[Richard Henley]

What I'm reading here has me concerned.

I installed BibleWorks 9 when it first came out, and installed all the videos on my hard drive during the initial installation. However, I've never used the training videos. I use the Firefox ver. 28 web browser. I see Adobe Flash player listed as installed on my computer. I don's see Macromedia Flash player listed as installed - which doesn't mean it's not there, as I'm not a computer expert.

If I use the BibleWorks training videos am I at risk of corrupting my computer? Should remove BibleWorks 9 from my computer, and re-install it without the videos?

Perhaps BibleWorks could provide a definitive answer

[MTan]

Hello Friends,
We're not aware of problems with the installation of Flash.
Just to make sure things were still ok, on a fresh Windows 7 (32 bit) installation, I installed the newest version of Flash (12). After that, I installed BW 9 rev. 4, and there were no problems. I then installed Firefox, verified the Flash plug-in was installed successfully in Firefox. Next, I manually ran the Flash 10 installers that ship with BW 9. The Flash 10 installer correctly detected the newer version of Flash and quit without doing anything. Next I re-installed BibleWorks 9, re-started Windows as directed, and everything is still fine. BibleWorks runs (and plays videos), Firefox is fine, Flash 12 is still installed (both in Windows and in the Firefox plugins list), etc.

If someone has trouble with the existing installation, please contact our Customer Service with your system description (BibleWorks revision #, Windows version, previous Flash version, IE version, Firefox version, security software, etc.), and we will be happy to help.
Michael

[MBushell]

Hello Friends,
We're not aware of problems with the installation of Flash.
Just to make sure things were still ok, on a fresh Windows 7 installation, I installed the newest version of Flash (12). After that, I installed BW 9 rev. 4, and there were no problems. I then installed Firefox, verified the Flash plug-in was installed successfully in Firefox. Next, I manually ran the Flash 10 installers that ship with BW 9. The Flash 10 installer correctly detected the newer version of Flash and quit without doing anything. Next I re-installed BibleWorks 9, re-started Windows as directed, and everything is still fine. BibleWorks runs (and plays videos), Firefox is fine, Flash 12 is still installed (both in Windows and in the Firefox plugins list), etc.

If someone has trouble with the existing installation, please contact our Customer Service with your system description (BibleWorks revision #, Windows version, previous Flash version, IE version, Firefox version, security software, etc.), and we will be happy to help.
Michael

Let me echo what Michael says. BibleWorks does not install flash itself and there is no way for BibleWorks to force an old version of flash to be installed over a newer one. The flash installer that ships with BibleWorks is an Adobe program and is designed NOT to run if it is older than the one currently installed. It is possible that the current flash installation was somehow corrupted and the flash installer misbehaved as a result, but that really has nothing to do with BibleWorks. Flash installation failures can also be cause by a myriad of issues, including hard drive corruption, conflict with other programs, interference from anti-virus programs, and so on. BibleWorks 9 has been installed on thousands of machines without such problems. So you need not be unduly alarmed by this report. There was apparently something unusual about the target machine that happens very, very rarely. We are very sorry that one user had a bad experience, but we don't want everyone else to become alarmed unnecessarily.

Mike

[jskern]

Thanks, Mike & Michael, for your quick response. I am no longer unduly alarmed!

[brainout]

I haven't received BW9 yet (just bought it 2 days ago), so what should i be careful NOT to do when I'm loading it?

Well, since I'm now trying to install it for the third time on the same computer (Win7, 32-bit), here's what I've learned:

1. CLONE YOUR WHOLE DRIVE before you do anything. Use Clonezilla, downloadable free from Sourceforge. Or, buy the CD (not the usb) from Amazon for $3. Follow the prompts. Understand they use weird Linux jargon, so 'sda' means your internal hard drive(s) and partitions, but 'sdb' means the clone. They don't use intelligible words, but in the last two days, due to these BW and other glitches, I've had to clone and reclone THREE TIMES.

2. UNINSTALL any Adobe Flash products you have. Someone at BW mistakenly decided to force Macromedia Flash 10 as part of the BW9 installation, even when you don't choose to install the many (usually helpful) videos. This is a horror, because your browser and Windows and everyone else goes bonkers if you don't have the latest Flash version. So best to just uninstall ALL versions of Flash in browsers and in Programs, prior to installing BW9. For if the (old, therefore wrong version) of BW's Flash installs and other Adobe products are already installed, you'll be cleaning your computer of glitches for days. This isn't BW's fault, it's Adobe's, but BW folks should know how notoriously bad Adobe is about uninstalling or not recognizing a LATER VERSION of Flash is already installed.

Contrary to what others say here, YES BW9 DOES INSTALL FLASH 10, IT'S WRECKED MY MACHINE THREE TIMES OVER THE LAST TWO DAYS. You will have to uninstall it afterwards. It clearly even TELLS you it's installing, and the second time when I specified NO VIDEOS (#8 below), it still installed the thing, so I aborted the installation. Then, couldn't uninstall, had to clone back to get my machine working again. So that's why I'm doing #3 installation, now.

AS I TYPE, on my other computer, is the message, "BibleWorks needs to update your Macromedia Flash Player installation. Please make sure that ALL other programs are closed. Click on OK when you are ready to proceed". Even though, I did NOT check the option to install the videos. This is where I aborted the installation yesterday, and then couldn't uninstall BW9. THIS IS A VERY BAD DESIGN DECISION BY BW. Were it not for TuneUp Utilities' ability to ferret out all the snaking places Macromedia OLD VERSION 10 installs itself, I'd throw the BW9 installation away. You can bet I won't upgrade if this problem isn't fixed.

TuneUp Utilities is a lifesaver set of utilities, for your PC. Its Uninstaller made my life better: I was able to clean up after the last botched BW9 installation of Macromedia Flash yesterday, in only two hours (versus two days, the first time). So I'll be using it again, after this third attempt to get the installation right, is over.

3. TYPE OUT on Notepad or otherwise make easy to read, all those arcane BW9 unlock codes for the modules they gave you at purchase. It's a LIE that you can just paste them in: you'll see a lot of comments in this forum and by BW folks that 'oh, you can just paste in the codes from Notepad'. NOT TRUE. The BW installer DISABLES paste. So you must to type the codes in manually, four letters at a time. The installer WILL NOT LET YOU PASTE. So the hard-to-read email you got with the arcane codes, should be highlighted for BW9 codes (not the other versions which might be in the email), and either typed off in a large font you can easily read, or placed by your monitor so it's easy to read and type.

This is one of the worst features of BW (and there aren't many bad things) -- the installation is unnecessarily annoying and complicated. Gives you good practice using 1John1:9, which I have to use every other second, right now.

4. BE ONLINE when you install. Any prior versions of BW you have registered, will suddenly be erased from view. I have three full sets of BW as the sole user (not upgrades -- four including BW4, which I upgraded to 5) -- I can't access the prior ones online; BW9 has eaten access to the registration, so now if I need to reinstall the earlier versions to another computer, I have to do it manually, which is an even FAR bigger pain than the installer installation. Very thoughtless, sorry. It's already hard enough to use, let alone go through the gehenna of installation.

5. UNINSTALL your prior installations or install BW9 first and then reinstall the prior ones later. You can do this easily with BW5, but not later versions; the later ones will require 'manual activation', meaning emails back and forth with the folks at BW, to 'okay' activation, a royal pain.

BW9 hogs the machine. So you have to do LATER reinstallations of EARLIER versions you're already accustomed to using, AFTERWARDS. So like right now, I'm installing BW9 first, then will install my trustworthy BW5, so I can get real work done. BW5 doesn't have the resources of 9. So I use 9 for the resources, but 5 for real work.

BW9 is great for seeing the manuscripts, and for the modules available. It also has some features which are helpful, but it also took away some of the best Bibleworks features, which are still in BW5 (like multi-version AutoInfo window and TSK in multi-version, search is better in BW5, etc).

6. When prompted during installation, PICK A UNIQUE NAME for your file folder, not the default. Preferably, pick some other partition or hard drive to install to. This makes it easier to know what files went where, in case the installation gets botched.

7. ONLY INSTALL THE STUFF YOU ACTUALLY WANT. This is a painstaking process since you have to keep on checking boxes each time, and there are so many to check. Sadly, on updates, even when you deselect the patches for versions or other modules you did NOT install, BW will install them anyway, gumming up your machine. That's one reason I'm reinstalling 3 times, I'm trying to see how to defeat the update patches from putting on the machine stuff I don't want and de-selected prior to downloading.

8. DO NOT INSTALL THE VIDEOS unless you've a lot of free space (like 10 GB). Even if you won't install the videos, the installer insists on installing Macromedia Flash, which you'll have to uninstall afterwards. If you abort the installation when it tries to install flash, you won't be able afterwards to uninstall BW.

9. DO NOT INSTALL THE UPDATES. Even if you don't select an item, it installs anyway. As a result, this reinstallation isn't working, as I cannot UNinstall previously installed updates and must now delete everything and do it all a fourth time, all the above steps. This glitch does NOT happen if you just finish installation WITHOUT updates, and then go for them post-installation. I didn't have this problem on my other BW9 installations, as I never got a message prompting me for updates prior to initial installation. So it's a bug, because if it updates prior to installation, then it ASSumes you want all the updates, even if you did NOT check them.

I've installed BW9 three times on other machines, but this one has a 1TB hard drive, so wanted it here. Since every Windows machine goes bad or is busy at one time or another, I wanted a 'buddy system' so I can access BW when the other machines are being cloned or whatever. I'm the only user of all machines, no one else has access to them, I live alone. I didn't have this much nightmare on the other machines. So maybe you won't, either.

Seriously, it was a pain to go from BW4 to 5, because they changed the interface so much. But installation itself, was relatively painless, and in those days yes you could paste the unlock codes. But not now. Now, it's a nightmare.

10. DO NOT ACCEPT UPDATES until you've configured your Options and set CHECKPOINTS (the BW name for restore points). Make sure that your UPDATES are NOT automatic, that the patches are backed up, else you cannot roll back to a prior setting. That's why #9 is critical -- do NOT do updates at initial installation, as you cannot roll them back afterwards. It will take a good day to learn the options and about checkpoints and other complicated things in this version of BW. Go slowly, set it up right the first time. Or you will regret it. Sadly, they don't make this part of the installation guidelines clear or easy, and you have to do everything manually.


Please understand. I don't want to live without Bibleworks. So these frank complaints are necessary, lest I seem fawning.

As for what you don't do and do do after installation, that's hard to advise. My Youtube and vimeo subscribers who buy BW due to my videos, ask me this question. So not knowing what you really need, I'll but pick a few DO's:

* DO take time to learn the Options. Experiment. It will take you a full month of no other activity to learn BW. Worth it. Took me three months to learn BW5, but I'm sure you're smarter than me.

* DO use the 4.0 style buttonbar, which is an unintuitive name for the Search Range dialogue. The new default is horrible, with a long single list of horrible check boxes you must scroll down to use; but the 4.0 style presents you with all-on-one-screen book selection, akin to the new BW9 style of presenting all the Bible books or versions in the Browse window.

* DO use the Analysis Window under the Browse Window. Easier to see the mss that way, and the apparati. These latter two are THE reasons to buy BW9. STERLING GORGEOUS STUFF. You realize immediately that Scripture is inspired, for it's evident that thousands upon thousands of scholars (including the folks at BW) have given their lives so you could just witness the REAL THING on screen. Frankly, it's hard not to think that anyone insisting on teaching/reading Bible in translation, is in fellowship. The hard work God went to, to coordinate all those hundreds of thousands of lives for 2000 years to PRESERVE Scripture.. is shocking evidence enough.

* And here's one DO NOT: don't save your Search tabs, they accumulate and confuse. Alternatively, DO save them if you're doing complex research on many interrelated topics and need to switch from search tab to search tab.

That's it. Sorry this was so long. Installation has finished now, IS BOTCHED AGAIN -- BW wrongly installed ALL the language versions on my machine, though I only checked off a FEW versions -- and I must go redo the installation AGAIN. Sigh. AND I CANNOT UNINSTALL THE VERSIONS I NEVER CHECKED OFF TO BE INSTALLED, SO NOW I MUST INSTALL THEM AND THEN UNCHECK THEM. FOUR MORE HOURS NOW WASTED. Never gonna buy another version after this, unless it stops being so buggy.

PS: now, at 10:30 pm on Thursday (I started all this hassle on Monday and didn't even work or shower) -- I'm finally done. Followed the above instructions myself, just finished uninstalling AGAIN, the Flash Player 10 BW9 insisted on installing, and finally everything works.

[brainout]

What I'm reading here has me concerned.

I installed BibleWorks 9 when it first came out, and installed all the videos on my hard drive during the initial installation. However, I've never used the training videos. I use the Firefox ver. 28 web browser. I see Adobe Flash player listed as installed on my computer. I don's see Macromedia Flash player listed as installed - which doesn't mean it's not there, as I'm not a computer expert.

If I use the BibleWorks training videos am I at risk of corrupting my computer? Should remove BibleWorks 9 from my computer, and re-install it without the videos?

Perhaps BibleWorks could provide a definitive answer

What version of Windows are you on? If 7, then type 'uninstall' at the Start Menu, and look for Adobe Macromedia Flash 10. It won't fully uninstall via the Windows 7 uninstaller. For full trustworthy uninstallation, you need TuneUp Utilities. That's what finally worked for me. I have one per computer (those are the license terms), but one license is good for three PCs. I reviewed it in Amazon, same nickname. Won't own a PC without this program.

And you're likely not at risk. That's not the problem. The problem, is that Firefox will brick you if you're on a too-early version of Flash, as will IE and Chrome; the other problem is that Adobe products don't co-exist well, and your Reader or Acrobat might now malfunction. I learned all this the hard way. So just uninstall with Windows or better yet, get TuneUp for your daily PC needs. It's compatible through Windows 8, but I've only used it through Win7.

[brainout]

Let me echo what Michael says. BibleWorks does not install flash itself and there is no way for BibleWorks to force an old version of flash to be installed over a newer one. The flash installer that ships with BibleWorks is an Adobe program and is designed NOT to run if it is older than the one currently installed. It is possible that the current flash installation was somehow corrupted and the flash installer misbehaved as a result, but that really has nothing to do with BibleWorks. Flash installation failures can also be cause by a myriad of issues, including hard drive corruption, conflict with other programs, interference from anti-virus programs, and so on. BibleWorks 9 has been installed on thousands of machines without such problems. So you need not be unduly alarmed by this report. There was apparently something unusual about the target machine that happens very, very rarely. We are very sorry that one user had a bad experience, but we don't want everyone else to become alarmed unnecessarily.

Mike

Absolutely untrue, Mike. I am in the middle of the installation of BW9, and typed out what the dialogue box said, in my post above. I'm now doing it a FOURTH time, after cleaning the registry too. Please do check with someone who knows the installation steps, as I SEE THEM LIVE ON SCREEN as I type to you. The dialogue about installing Macromedia 10 and its defacto existence, starts after Disc 3 of the DVDs has been installed. Even, if you didn't choose to install the videos.

I've installed to three other machines already, too, and am the sole user of all machines, no one lives with me so no one else can even touch them. They are backup machines, so I'm never using BW9 on more than one at any time. Fortunately, on those prior installations, I didn't choose to allow updates at initial installation, which is the other big BUG y'all gotta fix.

For if you allow updates during initial installation, the installer hasn't yet obeyed the initial selections; so even if one doesn't select all the updates, they all install anyway, and then there is no prior restore point so you cannot get rid of them. As a result, you have to completely uninstall, delete all folders with any reference to Bible works, clean your registry, and all that eats a day or two of your life. Just because, someone was a tad thoughtless.

It's not like I don't know how to install. Been using BW since 2001. The complaint is valid, and I must be blunt about it, since people buy BW based on my videos, and this is a BAD DESIGN which needs to be fixed, but is not. So if you ignore this, that's your prerogative, but then you're causing problems for your users.

I want every human being alive to have this software. So that's why I'm so blunt. If God dropped billions of dollars on my kitchen floor tomorrow, I'd turn it over to you guys and say, 'give anyone who asks a copy, and draw the retail cost from these funds'. That's how much I believe in BW.