I Thank God for Col. R.B. Thieme Jr.

[Adelphos]

Whenever the cult leader is not highly spoken of, the cult followers get agitated and begin to make personal attacks, as the foregoing clearly demonstrate.

The content of the above posts clearly reveal the personal attacks against the commenter who doesn't hold Thieme in high esteem -- and the personal attacks are of course a complete disconnect with what was actually written.

But this is classic with the cults.

I did not start this thread, nor have I made a personal attack against any of the posters. The same cannot be said of he who started this thread.

[ISalzman]

Hey Glenn,

You're experience is very similar to mine.

My dad was in the Air Force, during which time he became a taper, though never quit qoing to church - as is often the accusation.

While attending a church, during my young years, he had a taper group in his house. Great friends. Great time. While at time, there were some tough cases, far and away the folks were absolutely salt of the earth. Salt and light.

The church that we attended at this time, merely because my dad, having transitioned from the Air Force into the air lines, flying out of the LA hub, the church we attended at the time was pastored by Bob Thieme's brother in law.

His name was Ridge Ryan. God used him to grow the church from a small bible study in his home library to a large sized church with its own property. He pastored Coast Bible Church for about 18 years or more, then went on to a very success support role in J. Vernon McGee's ministry. A ministry that has grown, BTW, since his departure to be with the Lord. At this church, while there were problem tapers from time to time, there where many wonderful, solid, dear people. Many of whom are still friends with my folks, still in email and prayer contact. Wonderful people. You've never heard of any of them, they aren't problems.

Ridge Ryan's wife was the sister of Bob's wife. Both are wonderful Christian women. You'll never hear of them, they aren't problems.

While at seminary, I attended a church lead by a pastor on Bob's tapes. North Dallas Bible Church, should any of you want to check. During this time we, as a church body, removed this pastor from office. The elders aloud a group of seminary students to be in on the process. Therefore, I was aloud to be in on the process, admittedly, in a peripheral way. Bitter split. Friends lost. Everything associated with splits.

But at this church and during this time I most some of the most wonderful people of my entire life. They were so good to my wife and I. People we will never forget. People who have still helped us from time to time and kept in contact. People who every single one of them tapers. Tina and I will go to the grave loving these folks. Their lives could be examples to most academicians I know to follow. Some of the key folks went into key roles at a local church that was planted at the time. A church in Frisco TX. Others stayed on and North Dallas and have been fighting the good fight. Both groups, solid Christians.

The problem cases that I referred to above are those that fancy themselves "well read" and "scholarly." Every accusation that I've seen labeled against the rebel tapers, the only ones that ever seem to get any head lines, can totally and fairly be labeled against well read, scholastic, academic types. These too become impossible at times to take directly to a page in Scripture and let the word of God speak for itself, without having to first run it past their "pope." Academia, Scholarship, Etc. is just as guilty of bringing people to saying, "I am of Paul," "I am of Apollos," "I am of Cephas," "I am of Spurgeon," "I am of Bunyan," and so on.

As for "specialized" vocabulary. Are any of you degreed types kidding me?! Seriously!? You didn't learn gobbledy gook vernacular jargon at Bible College, Seminary and in all your required reading. Come on. Be honest. If not here, for the sheep you minister to.

My point is, it's only the problem kids that every get commented on. There are so many good, good Christians that Bob's ministry has impacted - but none of you, more than likely, will ever comment on any of them. Many are in strategic ministries right now, but none will ever say, "Hey, there's someone who was a taper at one time or still is and wow!, God has been and still is using them in a powerful way. Thanks be to God."

Personally, I thank God for Col. Thieme. While his theology caused problems form some, for many it did not.

Hey SC, by now I've got to ask the question, "What, pray tell, is a "taper?" I've always understood it as another word for a candle (Old English), but that gloss doesn't seem to fit its frequent occurrences in this thread. Grateful for your explanation of a "taper." Thanks.

[Adelphos]

I notice that I simply offered my testimony, followed by a short discussion of the blood of Jesus Christ, without reference to any person in particular, and yet another personal attack against myself ensued.

In spite of the fact that I have made no personal attacks on anyone, but have only shared my testimony of how Jesus Christ washed me in his own blood, and offered -- not a single unorthodox figure to back up my testimony, but several persons, whose doctrine is known to be in complete accordance with the Scripture by all who are truly deemed orthodox -- it was nevertheless suggested that "submission" to Christ was apropos here, the implication being that perhaps my testimony of the saving of my soul through the blood of Jesus Christ might not have been in accordance with "submission" to Jesus Christ.

Hmmmm....

With all due respect, there is a pandemic of false teaching on the subject of humility and submission to Christ, which is nothing less than a reflection of the false Jesus and the false gospel that so pervades professing Christendom today, so let this excerpt from George Sayles Bishop serve as yet another corrective against this modern heresy and massively misunderstood subject...

"To employ soft words and honeyed phrases in discussing questions of everlasting importance; to deal with errors that strike at the foundations of all human hope as if they were harmless and venial mistakes; to bless where God disapproves, and to make apologies where He calls us to stand up like men and assert, though it may be the aptest method of securing popular applause in a sophistical age, is cruelty to man and treachery to Heaven. Those who on such subjects attach more importance to the rules of courtesy than they do to the measures of truth do not defend the citadel, but betray it into the hands of its enemies. Love for Christ, and for the souls for whom He died, will be the exact measure of our zeal in exposing the dangers by which men’s souls are ensnared." George Sayles Bishop, Sermon, June 7, 1885

He who thinks that the doctrine of the blood of Jesus Christ is not absolutely foundational has never read the same Bible that I have read. Or that Spurgeon, Bunyan, Owen, ad infinitum has read.

Or that Peter, John, Paul and the others wrote about.

[Precha1]

Hi Scott and Scott,

O.k. Your points are noted. Can we all be friends again? :-)

Spoken like a pastor (Ephesians 4:3) and appreciated by a brother like me who has benefitted greatly from the numerous threads and sharings of Scott and Scott.

[SCSaunders]

Whenever the cult leader is not highly spoken of, the cult followers get agitated and begin to make personal attacks, as the foregoing clearly demonstrate.

The content of the above posts clearly reveal the personal attacks against the commenter who doesn't hold Thieme in high esteem -- and the personal attacks are of course a complete disconnect with what was actually written.

But this is classic with the cults.

I did not start this thread, nor have I made a personal attack against any of the posters. The same cannot be said of he who started this thread.

This thread is reason enough for anybody whose ever been grateful to God for someone's ministry as to why they'd get just a little upset and want to speak in their defense.

You attacked and continue to attack Col. Thieme. Your accusations are inflammatory. You know it. You can lie to yourself and act as if you are a martyr and beg the audience to see you as taking the spiritual high ground.

Replace Bob's name with any other that I consider whose ministry has been a gift from God to me and my family and I will probably say something. In their defense.

There are friends who will stick closer than a brother, who will stick closer than, permit me to use some Greek here, who will stick closer than an adelphos.

Keep going Scott. We tapers, those who ever were or still are, I happen to be of the former group, we are use to being called cult members. We are use to having Bob called a cult leader. We are used to being accused of Bibliolatry. Whatever else you can dig up. We're use to it. Especially by those really never gave the 50 year ministry any kind of a chance. (Boy, that last statement is grist for a comment. I've teed it up for you. Swing away!)

[SCSaunders]

Hey SC, by now I've got to ask the question, "What, pray tell, is a "taper?" I've always understood it as another word for a candle (Old English), but that gloss doesn't seem to fit its frequent occurrences in this thread. Grateful for your explanation of a "taper." Thanks.

Prior to the internet and MP3s and downloads and such. You could order and listen to cassette tapes of Bob's ministry. Listeners of these cassette tapes is where the term "taper" got coined. We were known as "tapers."

Bob never charged for his materials. All of them, for over 50 years, were given away for free. It was a grace ministry. He didn't want to have his materials sold at a bookstore. Though, many did "borrow" his material and made a very good living doing just that, selling them at Christian bookstores.

[Adelphos]

You attacked and continue to attack Col. Thieme. Your accusations are inflammatory. You know it. You can lie to yourself and act as if you are a martyr and beg the audience to see you as taking the spiritual high ground.

This is yet another demonstration of your very confused mental state. You better wake up, son, and start paying attention to your own convoluted delusions of the actual facts.

I did not attack Thieme. Rather, I offered my own PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with him, along with EXAMPLES of what he said and did, unlike your disconnected diatribes. Nor have I had a SINGLE harsh word to say about Thieme personally, unlike yourself concerning me.

Moreover, there is another FORMER taper here who has had FAR HARSHER things to say about Thieme in this thread than I have.

All you've managed to do with your selective memory and false projection is confirm the cultic quality of Thieme's ministry.

And since you are determined to keep beating this horse in a thread which YOU started, and in which YOU have made personal attacks against me in, (even though the gargantuan log in your own eye is utterly invisible to yourself), I will now therefore put the truth to rest for all who are of the truth, and the simple truth is this...

Thieme's denial of the blood of Jesus Christ is sheer blasphemy, and it is a blasphemy which no man who has ever been washed in the blood of Jesus Christ could make, and he who will not vigorously defend the historic orthodox doctrine of the blood of Jesus Christ is likewise he who has never been washed in the blood of Jesus Christ.

Nor is that my testimony alone, but the testimony of a great many, such as a Spurgeon, or a Bunyan, or an Owen, or a Goodwin, or a Baxter, or a Boston, ad infintum.

All cults think they have discovered new territory, new doctrine.

But they are all deluded. Thieme's foul doctrine of the denial of the blood of Jesus Christ is almost two thousand years old. Thieme did not invent it or discover it, and it is a doctrine that has been denied by true men of God in virtually every generation, including the above names, and many more.

Moreover, it is doctrine that is denied today by every single soul who has ever had his sins washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ, and he who cannot so testify is he who is deluding himself if he thinks he's heaven-bound.

[SCSaunders]

I did not attack Thieme.

"Cult" is an attack and you know it.

Rather, I offered my own PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with him,

Very, very limited.





I could continue along with this, going line upon line, but it's a waste of time, time that I actually need to be purchasing.



Scott, you are not one to ever say that you haven't personally attacked nor attack. You of all people especially. That is your delusion son.

I'm done. I started this post as a thank you to God for a man that recently passed away. A man who I don't hate. A man who I don't see as a cult leader. A man with whom you've had little, very little personal experience. It didn't take you too long to start commenting in a way that would blemish that thanks. You are free to see and view Col. Thieme however you want. It would have been nice if it could have been in a different thread, one in which I wasn't honoring his life at the time of his death.

Chow.

[ISalzman]

Prior to the internet and MP3s and downloads and such. You could order and listen to cassette tapes of Bob's ministry. Listeners of these cassette tapes is where the term "taper" got coined. We were known as "tapers."

Bob never charged for his materials. All of them, for over 50 years, were given away for free. It was a grace ministry. He didn't want to have his materials sold at a bookstore. Though, many did "borrow" his material and made a very good living doing just that, selling them at Christian bookstores.

Thanks for the explanation, Scott. Believe me, I go back to the days of cassette tapes too! The man who taught me the system of the Masoretic accents and their chants (in my pre-Bar Mitzvah days, if you will) would typically record chanted portions of the Hebrew Bible on cassette tapes for his students to learn. Now that I do the same thing for my students, I have perpetuated his methods and his preferred storage media types (cassette tapes).

[bobvenem]

I'm confused. Which one of you is named "Scott?"