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Thread: Why I won't be upgrading to Bibleworks 8 (not for $100+ anyway)

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DimBimbleby View Post
    Okay, so what I'm hearing is that software can crash frequently and still be great. It's okay for text selection to be broken because it's hard to get right. Hardly anybody ever notices the problem I pointed out because most people are very careful to put their cursor to the left of the character--despite the fact that they've been trained by Word, email, web browsers, and every other text-based Windows app that they can select more sloppily than that. And nobody here is bothered that Bibleworks throws up a modal dialog when you delete the first character of the command line. And Bibleworks is great and hard-working and deserving of all praise.

    Huh.

    Bibleworks, please hear this. You have the opportunity to remain dominant on the PC (at least). But you are isolated by a mutual admiration society on these forums. Your view of software is stuck in the 1990s. What if Accordance announced tomorrow that they were (1) making their software available on the PC; (2) offering a massive introductory discount that put them closer to your value in terms of texts-per-dollar; and (3) going around to seminary campuses offering side-by-side comparisons of the packages. What would happen to Biblework's market share? Please, please be honest here. Can't you see that your share would collapse? Yet relatively small adjustments to UI and development practice would make you truly competitive. You could even port to the Mac and begin winning market share there.

    I've said my peace. Best wishes.
    You clearly hear what you want to hear. No one but you said BibleWorks crashes a lot. I said just the opposite and most users agree. Some infrequently-used combination of configuration settings (of which there are tens of thousands of combinations) may cause problems and they are fixed immediately when reproducible. Always! The command line popup was not a bug but a design decision which you just didn't happen to like (and in any case it was removed quite some time ago - probably at your request). The highlighting problem was fixed the first time it was brought to my attention (by you on this forum). With respect to Accordance, we are not in the least afraid of a side-by side comparison. But we don't live for market share. That is not why we are here. We are here to serve God and help our users with the best tools we can provide. If someone comes along that can do a better job of what we are trying to do and they don't try to bleed people dry financially, we'll quickly and I might add, happily, bow out. It would not bother me in the least if that happened as long as the needs of the church were being served in this area. As for the backwards, 1990's interface, the UI that we have now is the result of 17 years of interaction with our *users*. If you don't like it that is just fine. But others like it just fine because their input made it what it is. Don't do the majority of those who do like it the disservice of saying they are backwards and stuck in the 90's. You are welcome on this forum, but please, please, please go out and buy a Mac. Accordance is a great program. You'll be happier (albeit poorer). I would love to try to win you over, but I am just too busy now creating more features for you to dislike.

  2. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DimBimbleby View Post
    What if Accordance announced tomorrow that they were...
    Then they would quickly go out of business and Bibleworks would gain more customers. While doing ministry, you still have to pay the bills. I acknowledge I'm speaking foolishly here because I have no idea what Accordance's financial situation is but I venture to guess that the reason Accordance hasn't announced such things is because Accordance is unable to do those things. And if Bibleworks were able to accomplish those things, and the other expectations you have laid on them, I have no doubt that they would. On your quest for perfect software, please tolerate those imperfect options available to you. If they are unusable to you no problem...crack open that paper Bible...PTL it is usable to all! You might want to also check out E-Sword or one of the other free programs out there. I'm sure they will do an adequate job of copying and pasting.

  3. #33

    Default sigh

    It should perhaps be noted that when Bibleworks does crash it offers up a dialog box asking about the best course of action by which to fix the apparent problem. A Similar box is accessible to starting the program while holding a SHIFT key down.


    There are options to delete the ini file (When I've dealt with crashes in the past this has *always* fixed the problem.)
    There are other options as well like reinstalling faulty fonts, rebuilding version data etc.

    Two final comments:
    1. Yes I can be chalked up to a BW fanboy. But I'll hastly add that it is only because they've earned it from me.
    2. I use Bibleworks every single day (with only an occasional day off). It almost never crashes on me. and frankly hasn't crashed in multiple months. If I did a crash by crash comparison on my system, I'd say that Firefox, MS explorer, even MS live mesh have individually crashed with more frequency.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    3

    Default Crashes and such

    Ooh, ooh! I didn't know about being able to hold the shift key down when starting. This is most helpful.

    I am one of those rare people for whom BW frequently crashes. And on my XP laptop (but only on the XP laptop) I have problems with selecting text. It's annoying because I am often selecting text to put in the PowerPoint presentation for my class. Now I know I can update that computer and no longer deal with the annoyance. I like this forum!

    Does anyone remember CDWord? It morphed into Hermeneutica, which morphed into Bibleworks 5, long, long ago. I'm dating myself. Can't wait for version 8.
    Thanks for all the good work,
    R Telfer

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    27

    Default Expectations

    If Microsoft products that have programming teams 100 times (and budgets to match) larger than the folks at Bibleworks cannot issue products that are bug-free, doesn't it seem just a tad unrealistic to expect a team of TWO programmers who must write software that depends upon that flawed Microsoft OS to produce a bug-free product?

    If I may put it theologically, it seems some have an over-realized eschatology that expects a little too much "already" in a fallen world and does not appreciate the realities of the "not-yet."

    And Michael, in addition to your hard work I appreciate the combination of grace and truth you have displayed in your interactions on this forum. I know that given your gifts you could work elsewhere and make A LOT more money, but you have chosen to serve God's people in a way that few can.

  6. #36

    Thumbs up Well Said Matt

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Harmon View Post
    If Microsoft products that have programming teams 100 times (and budgets to match) larger than the folks at Bibleworks cannot issue products that are bug-free, doesn't it seem just a tad unrealistic to expect a team of TWO programmers who must write software that depends upon that flawed Microsoft OS to produce a bug-free product?

    If I may put it theologically, it seems some have an over-realized eschatology that expects a little too much "already" in a fallen world and does not appreciate the realities of the "not-yet."

    And Michael, in addition to your hard work I appreciate the combination of grace and truth you have displayed in your interactions on this forum. I know that given your gifts you could work elsewhere and make A LOT more money, but you have chosen to serve God's people in a way that few can.
    Bravo Matt! Bravo! Very, very well said. Excellent post.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    25

    Default Thanks to BW Staff

    Let me also add my "thanks" to those who have been pleased with BibleWorks. Years ago, I used another "Bible program" with the words "Windows" and "Bible" in the title but eventually came over to BW because of its superior value.

    At any rate, in my full-time occupation, I work for a large software company based in Redmond, WA and specifically, I am on the team that produces a desktop productivity suite that contains programs a lot of you reading probably have open as you read this.

    I can tell you that the quality of BW is amazing when I consider (as one person pointed out earlier in the thread) how limited their resources are. No modern software of any real complexity is free from bugs--and I mean LOTS of bugs. So the real issue is not bug free software vs bug-filled. It's what you DO about those bugs and how you deal with your customers (I know, I know, don't start flaming me ).

    Similarly, when your user base extends into the thousands and beyond, it becomes impossible to "please all the people, all the time" and so trade-offs are necessary. Sounds like the BW staff are doing all they can to make as many reasonable accommodations to user requests as they can without being yanked around willy-nilly. Additionally, many complaints from users actually have a solution in the existing software but users are just not aware. It may be more of a communication/education issue. As a quick for instance, it is interesting that 84% of the features that are requested for the product I work on, already exist in the product and have been there for at least one version! I'm willing to bet BW has a very similar experience.

    At any rate, I think the BW have distinguished themselves in the quality of their product and the quality of their support.

    Keep on keepin' on!

    -steveO

  8. #38

    Default Why I will be...

    Looks like this threat started by a malcontent turned into another place to praise the software, personnel, and ethos. I had my hurrah too. Of course I'll be upgrading at that great price for that great value. It'll be this year's "buy" for sure.

    Dale A. Brueggemann

    כִּי עֶזְרָא הֵכִין לְבָבוֹ לִדְרוֹשׁ אֶת־תּוֹרַת יְהוָה וְלַעֲשֹׂת וּלְלַמֵּד בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל חֹק וּמִשְׁפָּט (Ezra 7:10)


  9. Default Thread wrong on merits, wrong thread for justified praise

    I 'ditto' Dales's sentiments. From all I know of BW as a product (having owned them from 3.5 through 7), and the staff's response to problems or desires of customers, BibleWorks is a marvelous product, a great gift and tool from our Lord!

    As I've titled this, the critique that launched this thread is, I think, unfair and unreasonable. The last few entries are praise, though, so future 'attaboys' should be on another thread, such as on Why I WILL be upgrading to Bibleworks 8 (for $149.99), on which I've cross-posted, so as to (hopefully) steer those who wish to praise BW, not bury it , to a more appropriate thread.
    In Him, Bennett B. Wethered
    Pastor, Dayspring Orthodox Presbyterian Church
    Warrenton/New Baltimore, Virginia
    www.dayspringopc.org

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5

    Default What a wonderful response...

    Quote Originally Posted by MBushell View Post
    I guess the number one rule in tech support is not to respond to angry customers in kind. I can say that I did a lot of the programming in BibleWorks and I do not have the problem you describe. I can also say that we have tens of thousands of happy customers and that I have never talked to anyone who used BibleWorks on a daily basis who did not love that pesky command line. It is optimized for speed and minimization of keystrokes. A couple of versions back we offered a more user friendly approach as an alternative. No one liked it except people that used the program rarely if at all. The command line, believe it or not, is the result of 17 years of trying alternatives and always coming back to what works best for people who use the program as a daily companion. I like the interface. If I didn't, I would change it. An awful lot of people agree. So I think you are being rather unfair. It it were a private e-mail I wouldn't respond at all. In a public forum though some response is worthwhile. The Bible says a man's good name should be defended. That applies to companies as well. With regard to the highlighting error, if you reported it to tech support, it never made it to me. I would recommend venting your anger there before venting it publicly for all sto see, just as a matter of common courtesy. You might actually get a resolution of the problem. It happens. I can honestly say that this problem has never been reported before. If it had reached me with concrete reproducible examples, it would be fixed.

    I am sorry that you feel the way you do. Accordance is a good product. I know Roy and he is a good guy. If you purchased BibleWorks 7 directly from us contact tech support and we'll work out a refund of your purchase price, as an exception to our normal 30 day policy. Money is tight for us, as it is for all our users, but we don't want money from someone who thinks they've been cheated, even if we feel they are clearly wrong.
    I thought your response was powerful. I've always found it paradoxical that Christians would act in such a non Christ-honoring manner in a Christian environment. One can only imagine what kind of behavior is exhibited elsewhere. I thought your offer to refund the money was gracious and powerful at the same time. I have loved BWorks from the very beginning. I tell all my friends that it is the fastest search engine to be found anywhere. And I think I have all the electronic Bible programs for both PC and MAC. I pray you will be encouraged to continue providing for us all these great tools for knowing God's word. I just wish there was a module that would infuse in people the "how to apply the word's principles for daily living." It would be a hot seller-smile. By the way, is there a way in BWorks to highlight text and give it a different color? Thanks again for BWorks.

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