Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 31

Thread: Searching the Maqqeph in Hebrew

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kummerow View Post
    Sin and shin dots, like the vowels, accents, and dageshes, are the Masoretes' orthographic additions to the consonantal text. The orthographic letter ש actually represents two separate phonemes which the Masoretes chose to distinguish by the placement of the dots: שׂ and שׁ. I'm not saying the dots are cantillation, just that if cantillation and vowels are selected not to display, so shouldn't the dots.
    Gee wiz... next thing you know, you guys will be after the jots and tittles!!!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    309

    Default

    Please note: I am not in any way making a statement as to the veracity of the Masoretic system. In reality, I prefer to work with it actually, and in my doctoral research on pronouns I am paying very close attention to the accentual system.

    It's just that if one wants to display only the consonantal system minus the Masoretic additions that this cannot be done as yet. For cutting-and-pasting consonantal text into a document requiring that is a nuisance with BW since the maqqef and sin and shin dots remain.

    Regards,
    David Kummerow.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    115

    Default sin and shin

    That's correct. But I want the cantillation not displayed, the vowels - including sin and shin dots - displayed. BTW, sin and shin are two different letters. Sin and samek are the same leter.
    -A.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    309

    Default

    And I want to have the option not to display sin and shin dots.

    I am not entirely sure what you mean by your use of "letter". Sure, sin and samek had probably merged phonetically by the time of the Masoretes, while sin and shin were distinct (is this what you mean by "letter"?). However, orthographically samek and sin/shin are different, while sin and shin are the same. The Masoretes chose, though, to disambiguate with the positioning of the dot.

    Regards,
    David Kummerow.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    701

    Default create user-compiled version

    An option for removing the maqqefs and the other items mentioned in this thread is to export the WTT text, then use a text editor to search & replace on the text to make the character substitutions, then recompiled as another Hebrew text.

    The instructions for how to recompile the text are in the Online Help. I won't be able to help on this right now, but other users on this forum would be able to guide you on the recompilation.

    Blessings,
    Glenn

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    309

    Default

    Hi Glenn,

    Thank you indeed for your suggestion. I will give this a go myself as I do quite a bit of copy-and-pasting where only the consonants are desired (minus sin and shin dots). I think this is a better solution than having to find-and-replace characters in Word all the time. It can get a little messy.

    My opinion, though, is that this solution should be viewed as somewhat temporary in that I expect WTT to be able to optionally display only consonantal text and copy-and-paste as such. It is a rough hack to have to compile another version to accomplish this. Everything else can presently be removed and it's just maqqef and sin/shin dots that remain.

    Thanks for your time and assistance.

    David Kummerow.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Hi David,

    I agree that it should be possible to make the changes you suggested, unless there are unforseen programming problems of which I am not aware.

    But I mention this option because 1) I don't know how soon we could make the change, and 2) I don't think most users are aware how easy it is to tailor the texts to whatever they need through exporting, changing, and recompiling the texts. This would be an easy example of how to change the text to meet the needs of a specific task.

    Blessings,
    Glenn

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    309

    Default

    Hi Glenn,

    Yes, take your time. It's not a "must-have", esp. when this can be accomplished in the meantime as you've outlined. I'm happy if it's added to a list such as "things good to have a look at sometime in the future but aren't urgent".

    In any case, I've compiled my own test version of Genesis: WTC ("C" for "consonantal"). See the attached. Of course there are still problems. For example, תובל קין in Gen 4:22 compiles as תובלקין. How can I export so that spaces remain is such examples?

    Thanks,
    David Kummerow.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by David Kummerow; 11-26-2007 at 07:39 PM. Reason: some mistakes

  9. #19
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    309

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kummerow View Post
    Hi Glenn,
    Of course there are still problems. For example, תובל קין in Gen 4:22 compiles as תובלקין. How can I export so that spaces remain is such examples?
    OK, a little more detail on this. I have deselected "Remove Hebrew space-dots" under "Export Options" in the "Option Flags" "Options...".

    The ccat text of this compound name in Gen 4:22 is exported as: )T-_TWBLQYN. I think this should be exporting as: )T-_TWBL QYN (or some varient thereof with the "space-dot" appearing). In any case, how might this be achieved?

    Thanks,
    David Kummerow.
    Last edited by David Kummerow; 11-26-2007 at 08:15 PM.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Kummerow View Post
    The ccat text of this compound name in Gen 4:22 is exported as: )T-_TWBLQYN. I think this should be exporting as: )T-_TWBL QYN (or some varient thereof with the "space-dot" appearing). In any case, how might this be achieved?
    David, I have exported and recompiled a number of texts, but I haven't attempted what you want, so what I'm about to say is just a guess...

    To wit, when all is said and done, I think you're ultimately going to have to do global replaces in your text file to get a clean text. Therefore, I wouldn't spend time trying to accomplish it from the export function in BW.

    Rather, just export the text as is and then do global replacements...

    As I said, this is just a guess, but I think in the end this will be the best solution.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •