View Full Version : Judges B and Judges A

Andrew Fincke
08-16-2009, 08:13 AM
Since in Judges the text of Codex Alexandrinus (A) differs so much from the text of Codex Vaticanus (B), Rahlfs printed both - each with its own apparatus - with a dividing line in page-middle separating them vertically. Same for Daniel - the LXX text and the Theodotion text one atop the other. Is there any way to get the separate Greek versions to display simultaneously in the browse window - one under the other - when a verse is specified? E.g. Judges 6:4 Hebrew, then Judges 6:4 B, then Judges 6:4 A, then Judges 6:4 Targum in a single display? Now when I do a search, I get the B text to display under the Hebrew and above the Targum; but if I want to compare the A text, it displays in its own window without the other versions. Yesterday I got a verse to display as desired, but I forgot to jot it down; and now I can't find it.

Andrew Fincke
08-16-2009, 06:42 PM
Seems to be that if my search version is WTT, which is my top display version, when I request a verse from the search line, I get the verse displayed correctly - that is, WTT, LXT(A), LXT and Targum in that order. That's great! If I'm in any other search version, I don't get both Greek versions displayed. If I type in επεβλεψεν with LXT as search version, the results are even worse. There are two occurrences of the word in Judges - 6:14 and 20:40. When I click on the occurrence at Judges(A) 6:14, I get Judges (A) 6:14 displayed in the browse window without WTT, LXT and Targum above and below. Same with Jda 20:40. When I click on Jdg(LXX) 20:40 in the results window, I get WTT and Targum displayed along with Jdg 20:40(LXX) but no Jda(A) 20:40.

Mark Eddy
08-17-2009, 09:40 PM
Have you checked the "Options" "General" "Flags" "General Greek options" entitled "Show all LXX variants in Browse Window"? That should display Jdg and Jda together. If not, I'm working on a LXX variants user database which (combined with a slightly varied LXT verse map file) which allows me to see Jdg and Jda together all the time, but allows the placement of other versions between them, if desired. So write back and let me know if the first suggestion works.
Mark Eddy

Jim Wert
08-18-2009, 09:24 AM
If your search version is one of the greek LXX versions, you need to use Mark Eddy's option.

But, where there are LXX variants, WTT maps its verses to both variants. The other versions map their old testament verses to, or through, WTT.
So, if your search version is anything other than greek with LXX the verse mapping will cause both variants to be displayed (as when Andrew Fincke used WTT) without the option checked. If the option is checked when your search version is greek with LXX, both variants will be displayed twice, without any marker where the second copy begins.

So the moral of the story is: when your search version is a greek version that includes LXX, check "Show all LXX variants in Browse Window";
when your search version is anything else (hebrew, english) uncheck "Show all LXX variants in Browse Window".

Jim Wert

Andrew Fincke
08-18-2009, 10:12 PM
I checked the option flag as instructed. When I typed in επεβλεψεν with LXT as the search version, I got two listings (lines) for Judges 20:42. When I clicked on the Jda line, I got Jda (A version) displayed with Jdg (B version) beneath. Nothing else. That's OK, since by clicking the Jdg line, everything displays: WTT, Jda, Judges(LXT i.e. B) and Tar. However, when I switch to BLM as search version and type in επιβλεπω, at Judges 5:28 I get an occurrence without the Jdg line, since there επιβλεπουσα is unique to Jda (Jdg has παρεκυψεν). To get the full display with WTT and Tar I have to type in the verse number in the search window and hit CR. I await Mark's solution.

Andrew Fincke
08-20-2009, 02:26 PM
I have WTT, LXT and Tar specified as display versions. When I request from BLM that it give all verses containing both πυρ "fire" and αναβαινω "go up", I get two in Judges - 6:21 (LXT) and 15:6 (LXT and A). Without the option flag "Show all LXX variants in Browse window" checked the following displays: 1) (clicking on Jda 15:6 in the search results window) WTT, Jda, TAR. 2) (Jdg 6:21) WTT, Jdg, TAR. 3) (Jdg 15:6) WTT, Jdg, TAR. With the option flag checked, I get displayed 1) Jda, Jdg. 2) WTT, Jdg, Jda, TAR. 3) WTT, Jdg, Jda, TAR. What I want with every line selected in the search results window is WTT, Jdg, Jda, TAR. In the (not too) long run: WTT, 4QSam-a/b/c, 1QIsa-a, Sirach-Hebrew, LXT, Jda/Dat, Lucianic, TAR, PES. It appears that once I'm finished specifying the Lucianic text of Judges, Jda will be replaced with a Lucianic version that stretches from Judges through 2 Kings. So you'll have for the historical books just LXT and LUC to display. (Jda is nothing more than a translation of the Syrohexapla, which mostly coincides with the Lucianic text. "Jda" is a misnomer, since Rahlfs often inserted a Lucianic reading in cases where A went a different direction.)

Mark Eddy
08-20-2009, 11:27 PM
Perhaps part of the confusion (if there is any left) is due to the fact that Jda is a different book name from Jdg. Only LXT, BLM, BGT, and BGM have a book named Jda. The way the verse maps work, Jda is mapped to Jdg, but not vice versa. If you want, you can edit your verse maps the other way. E.g. add verse maps to WTT such as Jdg 1:1-36 Jda 1:1-36 LXT. I do not know if that specific verse map would work, since WTT is the basic OT text to which all others are mapped. But I know that such mappings work for other languages. The problem is that you will end up with duplicate entries when searching in WTT. Also, if you add verse mapping from Jdg to Jda, you also have to add mapping from Jdg to Jdg for all of the same verses. If not, when you come up with a reference in Jdg, the versions mapped to Jda will not display. I had to deal with this when I fixed the verse map files for those versions which have Daniel in Greek. Rather than create all the duplications in the browse window, I decided simply to keep everything mapped to the basic books in Hebrew and/or Greek, whichever is the original language, using the standard book name abbreviations. But, if you have specialized needs for mapping everything to Jda (and/or Jsa, Dng, Tbs, Bet, Sut), you are free to edit your own verse map files.
Also, you cannot map non-biblical books to biblical books. If eventually the Qumran Hebrew biblical texts are made available, they would have to be compiled as OT only texts (not combined with the non-biblical texts) and use the standard book abbreviations. Currently there is no way to map the Hebrew Qumran texts (non-biblical) which come with BibleWorks to any biblical materials which they might resemble. They need to be viewed in separate windows.
If I have muddied the waters, I apologize, but I can try to clarify more, if necessary.
Mark Eddy

Andrew Fincke
08-21-2009, 07:24 AM
Dear Mark,
Yes, please be more specific! From what you wrote and the pages discussing verse mapping in the BibleWorks6 manual, I'm hesitant to create a new verse map. All I lack now is the ability to get WTT, Jda, Jdg, TAR to display when a result in the search results window is specifically Jda - e.g. επεβλεψεν at Judges(A) 6:14. Since I'm working intensively with the Greek text of Judges, it's kind of an annoyance.

Mark Eddy
08-21-2009, 02:50 PM
I just made a verse map file for WTT which allows it to display together with Jda (and Jsa) when LXT (or BGT) is the search version. These same lines need to be added to TAR (and TAM, and WTM) verse map files if you wish to use the Targums and want the morphology to display in the Analysis Window.
Open the verse map files (ending in .vmf) from "My Computer" (they are in the BW "databases" folder. With BW closed, paste the following lines into the files (wtt.vmf, etc.) and save them. Then launch BW, and these files should be activated.
You may also need to add some of these lines to the LXT, BLM, BGT, and BGM verse map files for Jdg and Jda to display together. (I use a slightly different Greek verse mapping on my computer from what ships with BW, since I am experimenting, so my system may not display the same as yours.)
Jos 15:21-62 Jos 15:21-62 WTT
Jos 15:21-62 Jsa 15:21-62 LXT
Jos 18:21-28 Jos 18:21-28 WTT
Jos 18:21-28 Jsa 18:21-28 LXT
Jos 19:1-45 Jos 19:1-45 WTT
Jos 19:1-45 Jsa 19:1-45 LXT
Jdg 1:1-36 Jdg 1:1-36 WTT
Jdg 1:1-36 Jda 1:1-36 LXT
Jdg 2:1-23 Jdg 2:1-23 WTT
Jdg 2:1-23 Jda 2:1-23 LXT
Jdg 3:1-31 Jdg 3:1-31 WTT
Jdg 3:1-31 Jda 3:1-31 LXT
Jdg 4:1-24 Jdg 4:1-24 WTT
Jdg 4:1-24 Jda 4:1-24 LXT
Jdg 5:1-31 Jdg 5:1-31 WTT
Jdg 5:1-31 Jda 5:1-31 LXT
Jdg 6:1-40 Jdg 6:1-40 WTT
Jdg 6:1-40 Jda 6:1-40 LXT
Jdg 7:1-25 Jdg 7:1-25 WTT
Jdg 7:1-25 Jda 7:1-25 LXT
Jdg 8:1-35 Jdg 8:1-35 WTT
Jdg 8:1-35 Jda 8:1-35 LXT
Jdg 9:1-57 Jdg 9:1-57 WTT
Jdg 9:1-57 Jda 9:1-57 LXT
Jdg 10:1-18 Jdg 10:1-18 WTT
Jdg 10:1-18 Jda 10:1-18 LXT
Jdg 11:1-40 Jdg 11:1-40 WTT
Jdg 11:1-40 Jda 11:1-40 LXT
Jdg 12:1-15 Jdg 12:1-15 WTT
Jdg 12:1-15 Jda 12:1-15 LXT
Jdg 13:1-25 Jdg 13:1-25 WTT
Jdg 13:1-25 Jda 13:1-25 LXT
Jdg 14:1-20 Jdg 14:1-20 WTT
Jdg 14:1-20 Jda 14:1-20 LXT
Jdg 15:1-20 Jdg 15:1-20 WTT
Jdg 15:1-20 Jda 15:1-20 LXT
Jdg 16:1-31 Jdg 16:1-31 WTT
Jdg 16:1-31 Jda 16:1-31 LXT
Jdg 17:1-13 Jdg 17:1-13 WTT
Jdg 17:1-13 Jda 17:1-13 LXT
Jdg 18:1-31 Jdg 18:1-31 WTT
Jdg 18:1-31 Jda 18:1-31 LXT
Jdg 19:1-30 Jdg 19:1-30 WTT
Jdg 19:1-30 Jda 19:1-30 LXT
Jdg 20:1-48 Jdg 20:1-48 WTT
Jdg 20:1-48 Jda 20:1-48 LXT
Jdg 21:1-25 Jdg 21:1-25 WTT
Jdg 21:1-25 Jda 21:1-25 LXT

I caution other users, do not use this verse mapping unless you have the specific need to display WTT (or other versions) with Jda as the search book. This verse mapping can make the way Jdg displays confusing when WTT is the search version.
I hope this helps.
Mark Eddy

Andrew Fincke
08-22-2009, 01:44 PM
I thank you for your good intentions, Mark!
I closed Bible Works and found the .vmf files with the search engine keyed to "all files" and ".vmf" as the specified file-name part. When I tried to open wtt.vmf I got the popup "Windows cannot open this file". Should I go to the Verse Map Bible Works tool and type in the lines as you gave them? As I said previously, I lack only one thing: When I select a specifically Jda result from an LXT or BLM search - such as επεβλεψεν at Jda 6:14 - I don't get WTT and TAR to display in the browse window along with Jda and Jdg.

Michael Hanel
08-22-2009, 01:57 PM
I thank you for your good intentions, Mark!
I closed Bible Works and found the .vmf files with the search engine keyed to "all files" and ".vmf" as the specified file-name part. When I tried to open wtt.vmf I got the popup "Windows cannot open this file". Should I go to the Verse Map Bible Works tool and type in the lines as you gave them? As I said previously, I lack only one thing: When I select a specifically Jda result from an LXT or BLM search - such as επεβλεψεν at Jda 6:14 - I don't get WTT and TAR to display in the browse window along with Jda and Jdg.

Andrew, you can edit .vmf files with a simple text editor like Notepad.

Mark Eddy
08-22-2009, 03:43 PM
I am sorry that you could not open the wtt.vmf file.
If you click once on that file in "My Computer" then click on "File" and choose, "Open With", Windows should allow you to choose a program with which to open the file. Choose WordPad or Notepad. Then just paste the list of verses from this forum into the file and save it.
It seems that you have never opened a verse map file on your computer before. That is why Windows does not know which program to use in order to open them.
You can instead simply type all the entries individually into the wtt.vmf file from within BibleWorks, but that takes a long time. Once you have those line entered in the wtt.vmf file (in whichever way you find works), from within BW you can copy those lines to other .vmf files simply by highlighting the lines, copying them, opening the desired destination .vmf file, and pasting them in.
I would have just sent you the wtt.vmf file, but this forum does not accept .vmf files as attachments.
Again, I am sorry that this is taking up so much of your time.
Mark Eddy

Glenn Weaver
08-24-2009, 09:32 AM
When you wish to send a file that does not have a "safe" file extension, append .txt to the extension. For example, rename "wtt.vmf" to "wtt.vmf.txt". In this way the upload program won't know the difference. To use the file, save it to disk and then delete the ".txt" extension. This works in email programs, too. (This is useful when trying to send a CHM file by email, for example.)

Andrew Fincke
08-24-2009, 09:56 PM
Thanks Mark and Michael!
I located the .vmf files (wtt.vmf and TAR) and opened them with Wordpad and pasted in the lines and restarted BW7 and searched for επεβλεψεν and got all the versions (WTT, Jda, Jdg and TAR) to display for the occurrence at Jda 6:14. Next year also PES! And after that SYH (Syrohexapla)! And ARM (Armenian)! And GEZ (Ge'ez i.e. classical Ethiopian)! "In Shaala" as the Arabs say. (We'll need giant screens to fit them all.)

Andrew Fincke
08-25-2009, 07:54 AM
Jim was right! Having changed the .vmf files (on the laptop running Vista it was only one) I now get Jda displaying twice when the search version is WTT. That's unacceptable, so I'll delete them. Thanks, Mark, for the effort!