View Full Version : words used in WTM when NAU uses "pray"

07-26-2004, 08:16 PM
I have been trying to figure out the simplest way to generate a list of the Hebrew words that are used in the WTM version to translate the word "pray" in the NAU. Any help from users more experienced than I?



Michael Hanel
07-26-2004, 08:50 PM
I don't know if there's actually way to do that. It would require BibleWorks to know which verb word "pray" goes with in Hebrew, which it can't know except through Strong's numbers maybe. I can tell you that after doing a search on "pray" in NAU and looking at a large number of the verses tossed out (but not all) the Hebrew word used is ll;P' So if all you wanted was an answer, I've helped, otherwise not really. The really annoying part about searching for pray in NAU is that you get all of these examples which use pray in the sense of please, which is not what you're looking for because that's simply part of the translational force or the verb plus a particle, not the verb which means to pray.

Mike Hanel
MA Student Classics Washington University
MDiv Student Concordia Seminary

07-26-2004, 09:05 PM
I have been trying to figure out the simplest way to generate a list of the Hebrew words that are used in the WTM version to translate the word "pray" in the NAU.
Ah, the infamous concordance search. This is requested about once a week these days, and unfortunately the answer is always the same -- no, BW doesn't do this. Mike has alluded to some future possibilities, but no details and no timelines (and realistically, probably not much hope).

In the meantime, you can narrow the search yourself with some Strong's number searches. Start with a search for "pray" in the OT (l OT on the command line). Highlight the first occurence and note the Strong's number for that Hebrew word (in the header of the Autoinfo window). The first occurence I find is in Gen. 20:7, and the Strong's number is 06419. Now do another search, this time ".pray@!06419". That finds all the prays that aren't translated from Strong's 06419. The first occurence of that is Gen 32:11, and that Strong's # is 04994. Now do another search, this time eliminating both. So ".pray@!06419 pray@!04994". That only yields five verses, so you can manually look at those to see the original word(s).

If you want to do the reverse, just put the ! in front of the English instead of the Strong's number. So, e.g., to see what English word is translated from 06419, do a "!pray@06419", and go through the same exercise.

Note that all of this is subject to the Strong's mapping in NAU and to the state of the "Extend Strong's tags to all words" search option; I don't know which setting is best for these types of searches.

Cumbersome, especially on words that are translated to many different ones, but as good as it gets right now. There are still some uses for that old Kohlenberger Hebrew-English Concordance I have. :)


07-26-2004, 09:07 PM
Thank you:

I'm not sure if BW can do what I was asking it to. I did get the same response that you did in my attempts. I guess my question was primarily an attempt to find out if BW was capable of doing the type of search I was asking it to or not. I am still learning how to use all of its features.



07-26-2004, 11:04 PM

That helps! It makes sense, but Iwasn't experienced enough to figure it out. Thanks for the guidance.



07-27-2004, 08:44 AM
You may find this helpful. It doesn't do a word-for-word match, but it is a good first cut at such verses. The search finds all verses containing "pray*" in the NAS and ll;P' in the WTM.


07-27-2004, 10:36 AM

Thanks for your reply and assistance. This thread has been helpful in furthering my understanding of using the software.