View Full Version : limiting Hebrew text to the ketiv

Andrew Fincke
09-13-2007, 06:42 AM
Iin doing cut and pasting to a Word document, I am bothered by the parentheses in the Hebrew text used to insert the kere readings and would like to limit what appears in the Browser window to the ketiv text. Is that possible?

Steve Watkins
09-13-2007, 11:08 AM
This is a great question! I think that the answer lies in search string commands. If I understand correctly, you do NOT want the Qere, only the Kethib. You want only the actual text of scripture, minus any scribal additions.

I know that when you are doing morphological searches (using a morph-tagged version like WTM), you can limit a search with reference to Qere and Kethib using the 'R{q}' and 'R{k}' strings (for Qere and Kethib, respectively) - and 'R{x}' for neither. So, you can do searches for anything tagged Qere, anything tagged Kethib, or anything tagged Neither.

So, for example, to find all verb forms excluding any with Qere markers in the WTM, you want to search for anything tagged Kethib OR Neither. So, in WTM, you would use this search string:


Remember, that's just a simple verb-form search eliminating Qere markers. But it should get you rolling. Hope that helps!

Dale A. Brueggemann
09-13-2007, 11:38 AM
...would like to limit what appears in the Browser window to the ketiv text. Is that possible?

Actually, you can turn either of those on or off by clicking them in their box at the bottom of the screen when you have WTT as your display text.

Steve Watkins
09-13-2007, 11:42 AM

Yeah, that would be the easy way, wouldn't it?!

There you go. Double click Qere at the bottom while browsing in WTT to turn off Qere. Ok, I feel a little silly. Thanks, Dale

Dale A. Brueggemann
09-13-2007, 01:10 PM
Yeah, that would be the easy way, wouldn't it?! .... Ok, I feel a little silly. Thanks, Dale

It was just last week I picked up on the really esoteric hint that if you hit F1 when your cursor was in the commandline, the help-screen came up with examples of command line code. Rather obvious, but I'd been overlooking it and using a much more tortured way into finding these when needed. Probably why I didn't know how to type .*@v*R{kx} :rolleyes:

Andrew Fincke
09-28-2007, 10:32 AM
The problem - and I've been assured by the company that it is a problem - is that when cutting and pasting Hebrew text to a Word file, I gert parentheses used to delimit ketiv and kere in the end-product, and they mess up the right-left formatting and line-wrap. I would much prefer to have a flowing Hebrew text in the browse window. Unfortunately Westminster licenses the Hebrew text, and BW has to live with what it gets. Of course Mike could create a macro to solve the problem, but he's up to his ears with the maps and the Castilian Bible.

09-28-2007, 06:03 PM
Sometimes, the kere reading is actually to be preferred. Because many of the soferim (scribes) had such a deep reverence for the scribes who came before them, they wouldn't alter the text even when obvious mistakes had crept in. So what they would do was this: they would preserve the integrity of the text they were copying from (the vorlage) but add their suggested emendations as glosses (the kere). In other words, they would indicate what they thought to be the true reading by inserting the kere. Just something to consider before you throw out the kere.

Irving Salzman

Andrew Fincke
09-29-2007, 11:36 AM
Dear Irving,
I have no intention of "throwing out the keres". What I recommend is that we have a running Hebrew text in the browse window - with the ketiv reading - and a popup informs us if there is an alternate kere. That popup would appear automatically or when the cursor is placed on the word in question (preferable). Now your precisous keres would be spotlighted with a popup of their own, and I'd be free to cut and paste Hebrew text into Word without getting the line-wrap garbled by the parentheses and brackets.

Andrew Fincke
10-03-2007, 04:07 PM
Natalio Fernandez Marcos published a concordance of the Lucianic Greek of the historical books. It's largely garbage, and I've been creating a correct version - for 1-2 Samuel, 1 Chron 10-21 - by checking his lists against BW and cutting and pasting Hebrew and Greek clips from there. Instead of using verse #'s for referencing, I use the masoretic system - text-pieces that are recognizable.

10-10-2007, 01:20 PM
The cool think about using the kethib and qere toggles in the status bar is you can leave both turned on so you know when there is a qere present, but then you can turn of which ever you want with a quick double click before you cut and paste.

10-10-2007, 01:29 PM
Wow that doesn't work, does it. I thought I remembered seeing text without the brackets and parenthesis. But they don't go away now. Hmmm

Andrew Fincke
10-12-2007, 10:56 AM
Baloney, Skip,
Those toggle switches only set search criteria and have nothing to do with what's displayed for cutting and pasting. Kirk Lowery told me that none of the softwares offers an unblemished, running Hebrew text. Unless you know something I don't? When I cut and paste I just do CTRL-C and plop it into the Word document. The parentheses and brackets screw up the line-wrap and everything else.
Andrew Fincke

10-13-2007, 10:26 AM
Sorry Andrew, I thought I remembered a time when you didn't see the brackets and parenthesis. But so much gets jumbled together in the past.

In the early '80s I worked with other students on checking for accuracy the variants listed in the raw beta text of the Psalms of Solomon (became the CCAT LXX text) against photos of the MSS.

One of the projects we worked on was an eclectic text for our adviser Bob Wright. One of the students had put together a pascal program to display a verse with all the variants listed below the appropriate word. We could change the base text display by ranking the variants. The display was crude, at first we had no Greek font, I remember how excited we were when Hercules came out with the ability to use multiple fonts. The programming to display just one verse was pretty convoluted.

It would be nice to have a toggle to choose to display only one or the other reading. But that is probably much easier to imagine than to implement.

Andrew Fincke
10-15-2007, 08:12 PM
Another annoying thing is the maqefs between words. If you specify no accents also the maqefs should disappear.
Andrew Fincke

Philip Brown
10-16-2007, 09:12 PM
If you'll check the Tabula Accentum in BHS, you'll find the maqqef is not listed as an accent. Hence, it should not be turned off when accents are turned off.