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Thread: Psalms problem

  1. #1

    Default Psalms problem

    Bibleworks 9 doesn't show properly in PSALMS...
    How to fix?
    Please help!
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    Last edited by kimuspr; 12-19-2013 at 02:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    If I understand your question, you don't understand why the MSG Bible doesn't match with the rest of the versions shown? The reason is because MSG is not a BibleWorks provided version. I don't know exactly where you got it from, but it was not created or distributed by BibleWorks the company. So if you want it to work with the others, you'll have to do the work (that is, it's your problem, not theirs).

    What is happening is that all of these other versions use verse mapping files to align verses that do not agree between versions. What you would need to do is create a verse mapping file for the MSG Bible. You can learn about how that is done via the BW9 Help section on Verse Maps.
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
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  3. #3
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    Just to add to what Michael said, most of the translations are following the traditional English verse numbering, while the CJB is following the Hebrew numbering.
    καὶ ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν ἵνα οἱ ζῶντες μηκέτι ἑαυτοῖς ζῶσιν, ἀλλὰ τῷ ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν ἀποθανόντι καὶ ἐγερθέντι.

  4. #4
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    And to supplement this a bit further: The underlying issue is that in the Masoretic Hebrew text, the longer headings at the beginnings of some psalms are counted as separate verses. In Ps. 62, the opening "To the leader: according to Jeduthun. A Psalm of David" is reckoned as verse 1 in the Hebrew (and LXX), whereas in many modern translations it is not considered a verse at all, but merely an unnumbered heading, so that it is shown in BW as being incorporated into verse 1 within < >. The verse numbering is thus off by a verse between Hebrew and English (and often other languages as well).

    BibleWorks deals with this by using verse-mapping files, which contain indicators that align the verses properly among different versions. The verse numbers you see are correct for each version, but, for the reasons stated above, the numbers differ among versions. The CJB (Complete Jewish Bible), not surprisingly, follows the Hebrew numbering, as apparently do MSG and AEB. Of course, I'm not familiar with MSG or AEB, so I could be wrong about that; as Michael says, MSG, at least, is not part of BibleWorks, so I don't know about its verse-mapping file, if any. But if you have access to MSG and AEB apart from BibleWorks, you could check the accuracy of the verse numbers shown.
    Last edited by DavidR; 12-20-2013 at 10:16 AM.
    David Rensberger
    Atlanta, Georgia

  5. #5
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    When you make a Bible version using the Version Database Compiler, BibleWorks automatically creates an empty verse map file for your version. To get started on filling in that file, you can find a version which seems to use the same verse numbers and copy its verse map file and paste it into the empty one.
    In your case, MSG appears to use the verse number of KJV, and AEB appears to use the verse numbering of KOR.
    So, you can open the "BW Options Window" by clicking on the wrench icon. Then click on "Verse Maps" on the left hand side of the window. Choose your "Language" from the drop-down list of Languages. For English, from the drop down list of "Version" choose KJV, and highlight and copy the entire file. Then from the same drop-down list choose MSG, click in the empty window and paste in the material you copied from KJV. Click "Save," and MSG should line up in the Psalms (and elsewhere).
    If you get an error message, you can just save it as it is, or you can delete the line which is listed in the error message.
    For the Korean version choose KOR from the drop-down list of Versions. Highlight and copy its entire verse map file. Then from the drop-down list of Korean versions choose AEB, and paste what you copied from KOR into AEB and save it. This should solve your problem. You may find some verses where this will not work, but in the Psalms it should be correct.
    Mark Eddy
    Last edited by Mark Eddy; 01-09-2014 at 08:34 PM.

  6. #6
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    But Mark, I'm not sure that the original poster, kimuspr, is actually having a problem. The concern was that BW was not properly displaying in Psalms, and the screenshot highlighted the verse numbers in Psalm 62:5 (62:6 in Hebrew) for certain versions. Those highlighted versions include CJB and MSG. CJB is a BibleWorks version, and it does indeed follow the Hebrew numbering as shown in the screenshot. MSG is not supplied in BW, but according to http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...62&version=MSG and http://navpress.net.bible.org/#!bible/Psalms+62, MSG = The Message Bible does also follow the Hebrew and KJV verse numbering in Psalms. Therefore the verse numbering for CJB and MSG shown in the screenshot is correct.

    As for the versions in the screenshot that show this verse as 62:5, they are versions that follow the more recent English and Spanish (etc.) numbering system, in which the opening heading of the psalm is not counted as a verse. Thus these verse numbers are also correctly displayed.

    Therefore the information shown on kimuspr's screenshot is accurate and correct for these versions, implying that appropriate verse-mapping is in place for them, and there is not really a problem. I can't say anything about AEB; however, if the others are displaying correctly, perhaps it is doing so also.
    Last edited by DavidR; 12-20-2013 at 10:14 AM.
    David Rensberger
    Atlanta, Georgia

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR View Post
    But Mark, I'm not sure that the original poster, kimuspr, is actually having a problem. The concern was that BW was not properly displaying in Psalms, and the screenshot highlighted the verse numbers in Psalm 62:5 (62:6 in Hebrew) for certain versions. Those highlighted versions include CJB and MSG. CJB is a BibleWorks version, and it does indeed follow the Hebrew numbering as shown in the screenshot. MSG is not supplied in BW, but according to http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...62&version=MSG and http://navpress.net.bible.org/#!bible/Psalms+62, MSG = The Message Bible does also follow the Hebrew and KJV verse numbering in Psalms. Therefore the verse numbering for CJB and MSG shown in the screenshot is correct.

    As for the versions in the screenshot that show this verse as 62:5, they are versions that follow the more recent English and Spanish (etc.) numbering system, in which the opening heading of the psalm is not counted as a verse. Thus these verse numbers are also correctly displayed.

    Therefore the information shown on kimuspr's screenshot is accurate and correct for these versions, implying that appropriate verse-mapping is in place for them, and there is not really a problem. I can't say anything about AEB; however, if the others are displaying correctly, perhaps it is doing so also.
    If you look at the verse text for the "MSG" version, it is clear that it is displaying a different verse altogether--it looks to be the traditional English 62:6 as the number indicates, but it is not lining up with the other versions.

    But yes, the CJB is correct.
    καὶ ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν ἵνα οἱ ζῶντες μηκέτι ἑαυτοῖς ζῶσιν, ἀλλὰ τῷ ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν ἀποθανόντι καὶ ἐγερθέντι.

  8. #8
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    David & Lee,
    Thanks for double checking what I wrote. Lee is correct, sorry David. I checked MSG before I wrote. It does follow the KJV numbering in the Psalms, not the Hebrew numbering. So it is one verse off in the screen shot. I also checked the Korean versions. Although I do not read Korean, I learned to match shapes by playing with my kids' matching games, and the Korean characters do not match as displayed on the screen shot, while they match more closely if the suggested KOR verse mapping file is used.
    Mark Eddy

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Eddy View Post
    David & Lee,
    Thanks for double checking what I wrote. Lee is correct, sorry David. I checked MSG before I wrote. It does follow the KJV numbering in the Psalms, not the Hebrew numbering. So it is one verse off in the screen shot. I also checked the Korean versions. Although I do not read Korean, I learned to match shapes by playing with my kids' matching games, and the Korean characters do not match as displayed on the screen shot, while they match more closely if the suggested KOR verse mapping file is used.
    Mark Eddy
    My apologies! All I can say in my defense is that The Message is (IMHO!) so unfathomably non-literal that I misread which verse it was translating.
    David Rensberger
    Atlanta, Georgia

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR View Post
    My apologies! All I can say in my defense is that The Message is (IMHO!) so unfathomably non-literal that I misread which verse it was translating.
    Very understandable. It was only by process of elimination that I decided which verse it must be translating (i.e., very loosely paraphrasing).
    καὶ ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν ἵνα οἱ ζῶντες μηκέτι ἑαυτοῖς ζῶσιν, ἀλλὰ τῷ ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν ἀποθανόντι καὶ ἐγερθέντι.

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