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Thread: CNTTS question

  1. #1
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    Default CNTTS question

    Dear friends,

    I hope you all downloaded the new patch with better CNTTS features. Btw: are some more MSS included ?

    My question is the following:
    What sense have variation units #0.0 ? There are no variant readings in this category and I can't figure out what the sense of these Units is.
    Thank you for any help !
    Yours
    Peter, Germany
    www.streitenberger.com
    Last edited by Peter; 09-27-2013 at 09:20 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Dear friends,

    I hope you all downloaded the new patch with better CNTTS features. Btw: are some more MSS included ?

    My question is the following:
    What sense have variation units #0.0 ? There are no variant readings in this category and I can't figure out what the sense of these Units is.
    Thank you for any help !
    Yours
    Peter, Germany
    www.streitenberger.com
    Hello Peter,

    This is what the Introduction says : "For each entry, the UBS base text is listed by the number 0 (zero). After that entry, other entries that have virtually the same reading with only minor differences such as nomina sacra, moveable nu, or orthographic shifts are listed with the number 1, thereby showing that they support the base text with only minor differences."

    I take that to mean that the mss following the #0.0 indication are those that offer exactly the same text as the UBS. What isn't clear to me is why, at the beginning of the entry, this is always listed just after "lacunae." I'm assuming it means that those particular mss don't have lacunae for the verse and offer the same reading as UBS. But it is somewhat arcane.

    I love the CNTTS apparatus and use it constantly, but I admit I've never given much attention the point you raise. Someone else would no doubt be able to give a clearer rationale.

    Blessings,

    Don
    Aix-en-Provence, France

  3. #3
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    Dear Don,

    ok, but I can't figure out why MSS in the 0-Unit have other readings than the Base text. That would make sense, if These MSS would witness the Base text. Despite the L-Abbreviation is strange. There are no Lacunae at the MSS which are listed.
    So the sense of the 0-Unit is completele strange for me. Furhter help is highliy appreciated.
    Yours
    Peter, Germany

  4. #4
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    Peter,

    I agree that there is no documentation that explains these entries.
    My best guess is that it lists all the manuscripts that have no lacunae for this verse.

    --Jim

  5. #5
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    Dear Jim and Don,
    thank you for your help ! The BibleWorks Team adviced to ask the authors of the CNTTS apparatus, which I did. Here is the answer of Bill (I asked for permission to copy it into this forum):

    Peter, the Lacunae lines are places there for several reasons. They allow a quick review of which MSS have or don't have or partially have the verse. Also, they show the text of partial lacunae so that one can see the basis for the vids and some other readings for the MSS with incomplete text. As another reason, they help in what will be coming in the future for the program, namely an on-the-fly QA program whereby the user will be able to select the scope of text to be considered, the MSS to include, and instantly pull up a QA of the significant variants for that text, showing all of the relationships among the MSS in a QA table. So while these lines are not always useful at present for many user purposes, they were considered helpful for some users and for a longer-term purpose. Hope this helps some.

    Gracia y paz,

    Bill Warren, Ph.D.
    Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
    Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
    New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary




    Could that clarify our/my query ? If not, I'd be able to ask again. So if you'd place a comment, if everything is clear, I'd be glad. If not, I could ask Bill again.
    Yours
    Peter

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    Dear Jim and Don,
    The BibleWorks Team adviced to ask the authors of the CNTTS apparatus, which I did. Here is the answer of Bill (I asked for permission to copy it into this forum): []
    Hello Peter,

    Actually, after writing to you, I realized that there is an answer to your question in the help video. You can look at the one entitled "How to Use the CNTTS Apparatus", under "How to Use Study Tools in BibleWorks." The explanation is short (the video then moves on to other things), but it explains it well. It is also helpful for a good overview of the apparatus.

    Blessings,

    Don Cobb
    Aix-en-Provence, France

  7. #7
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    Dear Don,
    ok, I'll check this out ! Do you get along with the answer of Bill ?
    Yours
    Peter

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Cobb View Post
    This is what the Introduction says : "For each entry, the UBS base text is listed by the number 0 (zero). After that entry, other entries that have virtually the same reading with only minor differences such as nomina sacra, moveable nu, or orthographic shifts are listed with the number 1, thereby showing that they support the base text with only minor differences."
    I take that to mean that the mss following the #0.0 indication are those that offer exactly the same text as the UBS. What isn't clear to me is why, at the beginning of the entry, this is always listed just after "lacunae." I'm assuming it means that those particular mss don't have lacunae for the verse and offer the same reading as UBS. But it is somewhat arcane.
    I don't use the CNTTS that much yet, but this is a helpful discussion in approaching it. I think we may be a bit at cross-purposes here. Don, what you're referencing seems to be the codes that appear immediately after the text in each individual variation unit (e.g., S 0 -; - 1 O), while I think Peter was inquiring about the numbering system for the variation units themselves (e.g., 0.0, 1.0).

    Peter, it would help me follow this if you would give an example of a specific verse and its variation units.
    David Rensberger
    Atlanta, Georgia

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR View Post
    I don't use the CNTTS that much yet, but this is a helpful discussion in approaching it. I think we may be a bit at cross-purposes here. Don, what you're referencing seems to be the codes that appear immediately after the text in each individual variation unit (e.g., S 0 -; - 1 O), while I think Peter was inquiring about the numbering system for the variation units themselves (e.g., 0.0, 1.0).

    Peter, it would help me follow this if you would give an example of a specific verse and its variation units.
    Dear David,
    that's nice - thank you in advance. Here one example (taken from the CNTTS apparatus of 1Cor 15,47):

    1Co 15:47 variation unit #0.0 [1Co 15:47-0.0]
    L0- 46aBCD06F010G012Y04913335697613120921842448992794599912431244124913151319144815051563157316281646172017351739176818741876187718811900196224002495MTSBLTR>>



    Why is e.g. Aleph listed as Lacuna here - there is no Lacuna in this verse. So I don't understand the L sign here. The verse is complete in Aleph. Or I'm I missing something.

    Yours in Christ !
    Peter, Germany

  10. #10
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    The variant reading #0.0 is just a place to list the lacunae. It doesn't contain variants, per se, except to list what mss have the entire verse, are missing the entire verse, or are missing some portion of the verse.

    The listing L0 (where most mss appear in most verses) shows what mss contain the verse.

    The "variation code (third column)" provides some meaning for what the following variation codes mean.

    The listing "lacunae - 99" shows what mss do not contain the verse.

    The listing " - 98" shows where a partial lacunae exists. (And, if I read this correctly, if the missing portion is at the beginning of the verse, though I may be misunderstanding this.)

    For en example where L0, 98, and 99 occurs, see Acts 1:1.

    Hope this helps.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Glenn Weaver

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