Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: OR queries in the GSE search?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    127

    Default OR queries in the GSE search?

    Hello all,

    I'm trying to do a query on the words *πιστεύω, πίστις, OR πιστός PLUS ἐν with at most one word in between them. i.e., πιστεύω εν, πίστις έν OR πιστὸς έν.

    I can't for the life of me figure out how to get this to work! I can do a sub-query that matches all verses with one of the three πιστ- words plus ἐν. But I can't seem to order the syntax so that the ἐν comes directly afterwards with, at most, one word in between (it doesn't seem possible to set up an ordering mode between a merge box [the OR of the sub-query] and a word box [ἐν]). That query gives me over 200 hits, too many for me to want to wade through!

    I can't find a way to do it from the command line either.

    Obviously, I could conduct each search individually, but it's not the first time I've come up against this problem, so I would like to figure it out!

    I'm sure it's something I'm overlooking, but if anyone has some suggestions, I'd appreciate it.

    Donald Cobb
    Aix-en Provence, France

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    94

    Default

    You should use the GSE, like this:
    Name:  pisteuw_en.JPG
Views: 55
Size:  81.8 KB

    Here are the results I get:
    Name:  pisteuw_en_res.JPG
Views: 56
Size:  111.8 KB

    I have attached the GSE query to this post: pisteuw_en.qf

    Hope that helps!
    Michael
    Last edited by admin; 04-16-2013 at 02:36 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by admin View Post
    You should use the GSE, like this:



    I have attached the GSE query to this post:

    Hope that helps!
    Michael
    Fantastic Michael! I hadn't picked up on that at all! Thanks!

    Don
    Last edited by Donald Cobb; 04-16-2013 at 05:51 PM. Reason: removed image

  4. #4

    Default

    OR... just use the command line: 'πιστ* *1 εν
    This will get you 53 hits because it also includes πιστοω in addition to the ones you noted.
    Mark G. Vitalis Hoffman
    Professor of Biblical Studies
    Lutheran Theological Seminary at Gettysburg
    ltsg.edu - CrossMarks.com
    Biblical Studies and Technological Tools

  5. #5

    Default

    Actually...
    If I understand what you are getting at, Don, you are looking for all the "believe/belief in" texts.
    Note that sometimes εν is used and sometimes εις.
    I've attached the GSE file that will do that for you. Pist.En.Eis

    • Also note that I had to specify that εις was a preposition so that I don't include instances where it is the number "one."
    • Note that this search is a bit easier than others, because I can get all those πιστ* forms since they all share the same four initial letters.
    • If you really wanted to be more thorough, you might want to be looking for all *πιστ* forms: απιστ* ολιγοπιστ* etc., but in this instance, none of them matter. (Plus *πιστ* would also include επιστολη επιστρεφω etc, so ultimately you would want to specify the words as Michael did in his GSE.

    BUT
    Even with that GSE search, you are going to miss a number of interesting examples such as: John 14.1; 17.20; Acts 14.23, 19.4. These are instances where the preposition precedes πιστευω or is separated by more than one word. I've added another search that will find such instances of πιστευω and εις.
    So you probably need a combination of both those kinds of searches.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Mark G. Vitalis Hoffman
    Professor of Biblical Studies
    Lutheran Theological Seminary at Gettysburg
    ltsg.edu - CrossMarks.com
    Biblical Studies and Technological Tools

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    911

    Default

    Then, of course, you might also want to look for all the instances of *πιστ* plus επι, not to mention *πιστ* followed by a genitive, if you are looking for phrases translated "believe in" in English.

    Mark Eddy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    127

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MGVH View Post
    Actually...
    If I understand what you are getting at, Don, you are looking for all the "believe/belief in" texts.
    Note that sometimes εν is used and sometimes εις.
    I've attached the GSE file that will do that for you. Pist.En.Eis

    • Also note that I had to specify that εις was a preposition so that I don't include instances where it is the number "one."
    • Note that this search is a bit easier than others, because I can get all those πιστ* forms since they all share the same four initial letters.
    • If you really wanted to be more thorough, you might want to be looking for all *πιστ* forms: απιστ* ολιγοπιστ* etc., but in this instance, none of them matter. (Plus *πιστ* would also include επιστολη επιστρεφω etc, so ultimately you would want to specify the words as Michael did in his GSE.

    BUT
    Even with that GSE search, you are going to miss a number of interesting examples such as: John 14.1; 17.20; Acts 14.23, 19.4. These are instances where the preposition precedes πιστευω or is separated by more than one word. I've added another search that will find such instances of πιστευω and εις.
    So you probably need a combination of both those kinds of searches.
    Thank you Mark (and Mark E.!).

    Actually Michael's construction was spot on. My search was motivated by what a few commentators write about Gal 3,26. I.e., in the construction Πάντες γὰρ υἱοὶ θεοῦ ἐστε διὰ τῆς πίστεως ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ, the words ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ must go with the beginning of the clause (= Πάντες γὰρ υἱοὶ θεοῦ ἐστε […] ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ), rather than with διὰ τῆς πίστεως. This would give: "Through faith, you are all sons of God in Christ Jesus." The thinking is that πίστις, etc. is used in constructs with είς, ἐπί, with the dative, or perhaps with an objective genitive, but not with ἐν. I wanted to test that in Paul and elsewhere.

    The problem I had come up with in doing a search as you suggested is that every word with *πιστ* was showing up: ἐπιστήμη, ἐπιστρέφω, etc. so looking for the vocabulary with the specific πιστ- root was really what I needed, plus the preposition ἐν coming just afterwards (and not ten words before or after!). It would be possible to manually weed these out, but it's not ideal.

    I had run up against this problem in other queries, so I wanted to figure out a more precise way of doing that.

    FWIW, I still haven't come to a firm conclusion about Ga 3,26--for that, it would be useful to look at Josephus and Philo, at the very least--but I note that 1) there don't seem to be any clear-cut examples of πίστις ἐν (= πίστις εἰς) in Paul and 2) on the other hand, the construction πιστ- ἐν with this sense is attested in the LXX. So there's still some more leg-work to be done!

    Blessings,

    Don
    Last edited by Donald Cobb; 04-17-2013 at 04:23 PM. Reason: clarification

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •