GSE search - help needed ..

[Peter]

Joh1_1.qf
Dear Friends,

I want to search for constructions as in Joh 1,1 QEOS HN hO LOGOS.
But why does my query show verses with the definite article (e.g. 1Cor 3,13 or Rev 18,23) before the first none. I clicked NOT in this word box with the article.
Can you help me - what am I doing wrong ?
Yours
Peter, Germany

[MGVH]

I think I know what the issue is...
At the start of your query, you specify: [NOT an article] that is at most 3 words from the [noun].
When the search runs, if any of those 3 (actually 4) words before the noun is NOT an article, then it passes the test.
So basically, the NOT is not doing much of anything. (Try running the search with the article but turn off the NOT, and the only results you will eliminate are ones where the verse starts w/ an article.)

There's probably something that could be done using the Range Filters, but I don't understand those. (I'd love to have a tutorial on those.)
You also could try some sub-queries or combining multiple searches, but that's a lot of work.

STILL... I think you can get the results you want w/ your existing query by simply changing that "at most 3" connecting the [NOT article] to the [noun] to "exactly 0."

If you want to get a bit fancier, you can try the query I've attached. You will see how I added multiple [NOT article] boxes and specified "exactly 0" and "exactly 1".... You could add more. (Also note that I added them to the agreement box.)
UPDATE: See newer QF file below

[Peter]

Dear Mark,

thank you for your help ! I just tried your suggestion. Do you know why John 1,1 doesn't appear with it ? My intention is to find instances like this verse.
Yours
Peter, Germany

[MGVH]

Well, I wasn't paying attention when the search eliminates the very verse you were using as an example!
Two things:

• Adding the two NOT boxes kicked out the John 1.1 text (though I'm not entirely sure why)
• In the NOT box properties, I unchecked the "Exclusion words eliminate entire verse"

With this query you won't get exactly what you want, but it's manageable. (E.g., the first hit is Mat 13.38 which has the article split from the noun.)

[Donald Cobb]

Joh1_1.qf
Dear Friends,

I want to search for constructions as in Joh 1,1 QEOS HN hO LOGOS.
But why does my query show verses with the definite article (e.g. 1Cor 3,13 or Rev 18,23) before the first none. I clicked NOT in this word box with the article.
Can you help me - what am I doing wrong ?
Yours
Peter, Germany

Hello Peter,

Tell me if this is what you're trying to do (I haven't tried loading your query). I first did a search in BGM with the GSE that reproduced the structure of Jn 1.1 (θεὸς ἦν ὁ λόγος). Make sure you exclude punctuation!

I then right-clicked in the search results window on "Make search results new search limits".

Then in the search pane, I made the following query: '!*@dn* *@nn* *eimi *@dn* *@nn*

That worked for me and I came up with the following verses:1 Rs 18,39; 4 Ma 2,24; Sir 36,17; Mt 13,38; Mc 2,28; Jn 1,1; Ac 28,4

Let me know if that helps.

Blessings during this Easter Weekend,

Don Cobb
Aix-en-Provence, France

[Peter]

Dear Don and Mark,

thank you indeed ! That helps - one problem is left: There are many verses with this construction that the queries doesn't find. Maybe it's possible to have it kind of exacter. I hope you are willing to provide some further help.
Yours
Peter, Germany

[Donald Cobb]

Dear Don and Mark,

thank you indeed ! That helps - one problem is left: There are many verses with this construction that the queries doesn't find. Maybe it's possible to have it kind of exacter. I hope you are willing to provide some further help.
Yours
Peter, Germany

Peter,

What are some of the verses that the query didn't turn up? Looking at them might give a better idea of what needs to be fine-tuned. I have to admit I've since tried the same query in the Apostolic Fathers, and had a little trouble too, so it's not perfect yet...

Don

[Peter]

Dear Don,
thank you for asking ! One verse missing would be Luke 6,4: Κύριός ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου
Here we have an anartrous Noun, a conectinng verb, and a noun preceeded by an article. That's exactly the same construction as in Joh 1,1.
Is fine tuning possible ? Thank you in advance !
Yours
Peter, Germany

[Michael Hanel]

Dear Don,
thank you for asking ! One verse missing would be Luke 6,4: Κύριός ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου
Here we have an anartrous Noun, a conectinng verb, and a noun preceeded by an article. That's exactly the same construction as in Joh 1,1.
Is fine tuning possible ? Thank you in advance !
Yours
Peter, Germany

Note the reason why this verse is excluded. The text (BGT) for Luke 6:5 is κύριός ἐστιν τοῦ σαββάτου ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. The reason it is excluded is because a genitive phrase follows the verb. Your search string does not allow for any intervening phrases. If you want to allow for intervening phrases, you would have to specifically indicate that.

But you could change the search to pick it up by adding *2 to it which would allow for two intervening words.

E.g.
'!*@dn* *@nn* eimi@* *2 *@dn* *@nn*

[Peter]

Dear Michael, my search was in Robinson-Pierpont 2005 (BYM), that's why the difference. Do you - by chance - know, why my initial query hasn't been successful ?
Yours
Peter, Germany