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Thread: Error at Judges 20:11 in NIV 2011?

  1. #1

    Default Error at Judges 20:11 in NIV 2011?

    Is it just me, or has part of verse 10 been added to verse 11 in Judges 20 in the new NIV 2011?

    NIV 2011 (NIV)
    10 We'll take ten men out of every hundred from all the tribes of Israel, and a hundred from a thousand, and a thousand from ten thousand, to get provisions for the army. Then, when the army arrives at Gibeah in Benjamin, it can give them what they deserve for this outrageous act done in Israel."
    11 So all the Israelites got together and united as one against the city. nd a hundred from a thousand, and a thousand from ten thousand, to get provisions for the army. Then, when the army arrives at Gibeah in Benjamin, it can give them what they deserve for this outrageous act done in Israel."
    (Jdg 20:10-11)
    NIV 1984 (NIVO)
    10 We'll take ten men out of every hundred from all the tribes of Israel, and a hundred from a thousand, and a thousand from ten thousand, to get provisions for the army. Then, when the army arrives at Gibeah in Benjamin, it can give them what they deserve for all this vileness done in Israel."
    11 So all the men of Israel got together and united as one man against the city.
    (Jdg 20:10-11)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    912

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    You caught a database error. I'm reporting it to the database editor. I'm sure he will get it fixed.
    Mark Eddy

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Eddy View Post
    You caught a database error. I'm reporting it to the database editor. I'm sure he will get it fixed.
    Mark Eddy
    Maybe they will listen to you Mark.

    I'm still waiting on a correction that I reported after starting this thread in 2009: http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/sho...hronicles-25-9

    Errors like these do shake your trust in using Bibleworks for serious research.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2004
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    Perhaps part of the reason your previously-reported typos in the old NIV and TNIV were not corrected is that they were sent to the wrong e-mail address. The people who do customer service do not fix database errors. To report database errors the e-mail address is dberrors@bibleworks.com. I have sent literally hundreds of reports of database errors, and the speed with which they are corrected seems to depend on how serious they are, how widely the database seems to be used, and what other databases are being worked on. Some of the corrections I have sent were fixed in a few days. Others have been on their back burner for years. If they know that there are many errors in a database, they put off posting a fix until it appears that most of them have been caught. We were hoping that a few more of the corrections would have made it into BW9, but work on other databases didn't allow it. BW is a relatively small company. By the way, I have reported database errors to other Bible software companies as well, and, for what it's worth, their speed at fixing them has not been any better than with BW, usually worse.
    Mark Eddy

  5. #5
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    Nov 2007
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    471

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitwalker View Post
    Errors like these do shake your trust in using Bibleworks for serious research.
    These, are unfortunate errors that I hope will get fixed soon.
    I am also planning to send in a request to have them fixed as well(the more who do so the better the chances will be).


    BUT, does anyone really use the NIV for serious research?


    UPDATE:
    I (as well ) have just sent an E-mail to dberrors@bibleworks.com regarding the issues Kitwalker and others have mentioned along with links to both this thread and the former thread Kitwalker brought to our attention recently.
    Last edited by bkMitchell; 08-17-2011 at 03:08 AM.
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


  6. #6
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    Apr 2004
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    536

    Default BibleWorks and database corrections

    We apologize for the slowness in fixing some database errors. Excuses do not help fix database errors, but let me give a little insight into what we do and why.

    BibleWorks has hundreds of databases to maintain. Our process is not (usually) the same as editing a Word document. We usually use programs that we write to convert the databases to BibleWorks format. Some databases are complex, and the programs used to process the files are complex. Making a change in one area may affect other areas in that database, so making changes to the programs is not something to be done quickly or without much thought.

    Electronic versions of texts are more complex than printed texts. There are two levels of editing needed in electronic documents. Both levels have to be correct in order for the document to appear and to function correctly. The first level is the display text. This level is shared in common with printed texts. The second level is the underlying tagging. This tagging interacts with the main BibleWorks program to make the text function and display correctly. Both levels, the text and the tagging, can have errors. Therefore, there is a lot more proofing and correcting to be done in electronic texts than in printed texts. This adds more work to the correction process.

    There are different levels of urgency for correcting errors, as well. For example, if the error is a systemic problem throughout the database, we try to address that as soon as possible. If a database error only affects a word in a verse, esp. if it is easy to see for the BW user to see that it is an error and what the correct text should be, then we often collect the error reports until we can address that database. To make corrections to each database as soon as we receive a report of an error would, in some cases, have us providing updates to the exact same databases on a regular basis. It would be very difficult for us to produce new databases and program features if this is the way we operated.

    We were able to make corrections to some databases for the BW9 release, but were not able to address other databases. For example, we made hundreds of corrections to the NET Bible, a version that is very popular with BW users. Also for BW9 we reproofed (at great expense) the text of a number of the Greek databases. These are probably the most accurate of these databases available anywhere. We have some error reports, for example, for the Wallace Greek grammar, but we will not be correct those errors at this time because we will be redoing that module in the future in order for it to use Unicode fonts instead of the BibleWorks fonts. We will correct all the errors of which we are aware when we redo the module.

    There are also some cases where we license databases and the license terms prohibit us from making corrections to the database. In those case we have to report the errors to the license holder and wait for them to correct the database and provide us with new files.

    Sometimes we have the problem of what to do when the original files provided to us contain errors. Our policy is to follow the printed text where possible. Some databases we receive are not in very good shape. We have rejected a number of databases because they did not meet our quality standards. For databases that we have commissioned to be converted to electronic texts, we have reproofed the same databases numerous times. Our quality standards are extremely high. Having spent quite a number of years doing editorial work, I can assure you that it is nearly impossible to locate and remove every single error in a database. You would be surprised if I told you about some of the errors we found in printed texts published by reputable publishers.

    There will always be errors in databases and in printed texts. But we try to buck the trend that is, unfortunately, common in electronic publishing. We do not rush out a text. We spend a lot of time and a lot of money trying to provide the most accurate and best texts that we possibly can. Our new BibleWorks Manuscripts project is proof of this. We are seeking to provide the most accurate transcriptions of Greek manuscripts available anywhere. We try to do as well for all of our other databases, while at the same time providing new databases and new program features. It isn't an easy task. From my experience, I expect that the BibleWorks databases are as accurate as any that are available, and in some cases more accurate than other sources. As an indication of the number of error reports that we receive, I expect that the number of error reports we receive from one very diligent BibleWorks user/proofer outnumbers reports from all other BibleWorks users combined. This should be an indication just how few errors there really are in BibleWorks databases.

    BibleWorks users play an important role in correcting database errors. It is through users reporting errors that we find a large number of our errors. The best place to send database errors (and only database errors) is to our "dberrors" address at "bibleworks.com". (Please don't send customer support questions to that address, as it will only slow our response time in addressing your needs.) It is best to include only errors for one database in each email, and to include what version of BibleWorks you are using. We don't always check the forums, so posting an error on the forums is not the best way to report an error.

    Thank you all for your help in identifying errors in BibleWorks databases. Through your help we strive to provide the best databases and tools available anywhere for serious study of the Bible.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Glenn Weaver

    For technical support, please contact Customer Support.

  7. #7
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    Hey Glenn,

    Thanks for all your work. Know that you guys are all greatly appreciated.

    Blessings,

    Irving

  8. #8
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    Nov 2007
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    Glenn Weaver's reply to this thread entitled, BibleWorks and database corrections deserves to either be given a sticky or/and to be put in the BibleWorks FAQ knowledge base.

    The post in discussion was certainly informative as well as eye opening. I don't spend much time with English databases in BW9, but BW Hebrew and Greek have long been noted for their fidelity and for the fact the BW continues update & correct them. That said claim is one the main reason I deiced to start using BibleWorks in the first place.
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    Hi Brian,

    We added the content of my forum post to the BibleWorks FAQ Knowledge Base yesterday. Here is the link:

    http://kb.bibleworksllc.com/ikb/ques...questionid=188

    Thank you all for the nice comments. And even more importantly, thank you for your help in making BibleWorks even better through your interaction with us.

    Blessings,
    Glenn
    Last edited by Glenn Weaver; 08-18-2011 at 10:13 AM.
    Glenn Weaver

    For technical support, please contact Customer Support.

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