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Thread: Help with Constructing a GSE Search

  1. #1
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    Default Help with Constructing a GSE Search

    Hi all. I am interested in constructing a GSE search designed to find instances - if any - where BGM/BGT does not translate the Hebrew particle הִנֵּה
    with the Greek ἰδοὺ (or ἴδε, etc.). Grateful for any helpful suggestions. Thanks much.

    Irving

  2. #2

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    Actually, I would start by using the Tov Parallel Hebrew-Greek.
    Open via button bar or Resources > Parallel Hebrew-Greek
    Click on the א=α with binoculars icon
    Type in hinnah and click on the binoculars to start the search

    Your results will need some further sorting due to the way things are handled, and things are complicated because this word is used so frequently. Still, you will quickly see that you don't have to look at the 847 times where it is translated with ιδου. You will still have to check out all the others to see exactly what's up.
    Mark G. Vitalis Hoffman
    Professor of Biblical Studies
    Lutheran Theological Seminary at Gettysburg
    ltsg.edu - CrossMarks.com
    Biblical Studies and Technological Tools

  3. #3
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    Well, I couldn't resist trying this out myself for fun. I hope it will suit Irving in the actual work he's doing, but even at first glance the results are fascinating. For instance, on 4 occasions הִנֵּה is represented by ὥσπερ, and all of them are in dream reports in the Joseph story, הִנֵּה / ὥσπερ introducing the narration of the dream's content. Great tool!
    David Rensberger
    Atlanta, Georgia

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    Thanks, Mark. Good suggestion. I tried it. It's not perfect, albeit. When you type "Hinneh" in the search box (the consonants, anyway), it finds other (= different) words spelled similarly (Gen 6:2, for example). But a decent method and good suggestion overall.

    We typically call "hinneh" a deictic particle ("deictic," meaning having the function of pointing something out or pointing to something). Would you guys think that ἰδοὺ could be thought of in similar terms (i.e., as a deictic particle)?

    Irving

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidR View Post
    Well, I couldn't resist trying this out myself for fun. I hope it will suit Irving in the actual work he's doing, but even at first glance the results are fascinating. For instance, on 4 occasions הִנֵּה is represented by ὥσπερ, and all of them are in dream reports in the Joseph story, הִנֵּה / ὥσπερ introducing the narration of the dream's content. Great tool!
    Interesting observation, David! Thanks for weighing in.

  6. #6

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    According to BDAG, ιδου is a "demonstrative or presentative particle that draws attention to what follows"

    And here's the entry from the EDNT (you should be able to figure out the Greek parts):
    [EDNT] ivdou, idou see, behold
    VIdou, is literally the aor. mid. imv. sg. (ivdou/, from o`ra,w), which is written as a demonstrative particle with the acute accent. The number of occurrences in the NT writings are (in order of frequency): Matthew 62, Luke 57, Revelation 26, Acts 23, Mark 7, James 6, John 4, Hebrews 4, Paul (only in 1-2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans) 9, Jude, and 1 Pet 1 each.
    VIdou, serves, like Heb. hinn¢h, to enliven the narrative, either to awaken attention (e.g., Luke 22:10; John 4:35; 1 Cor 15:51; 2 Cor 5:17; Jas 5:9; Jude 14; Rev 1:7; 9:12; 11:14), to introduce something new (e.g., after a gen. absolute in Matt 1:20; 2:1, 13, etc.: kai. ivdou,; Matt 2:9; 3:16, etc., also Luke-Acts: ivdou,), in the middle of a speech (Matt 23:34; Acts 2:7 ; 13:11; 20:22, 25), to emphasize the importance of a subject (Matt 19:27; Mark 10:28; Luke 13:16; 15:29; 19:8, etc.), or as a summons to more careful consideration and observation (Matt 10:16; 11:8; 22:4; Mark 14:41; Luke 2:48; 7:25). In connection with a noun or finite vb. the meaning is here/there is, here/there was, here/there comes/came ( Matt 3:17; 12:10; Luke 7:34; Acts 8:27, 36; John 19:5, in Revelation frequently ei=don kai. ivdou, [4:1; 6:2, 5, 8; 7:9; 14:1, 14]). BAGD s.v.; P. Fiedler, Die Formel "und siehe" im NT (1969); R. Van Otterloo, OPTAT 2 (1988) 34-64. [2:173]

    I guess I had assumed it was primarily a semiticism based on hinneh. The entry in Moulton/Milligan's VGNT (found in BW) appears to support that conclusion:
    Moulton (Proleg. p. 11) has shown that the frequency with which ivdou, (originally the imper. of eivdo,mhn and accented ivdou/) is used by certain NT writers is due to the fact that they were accustomed to the constant use of an equivalent interjection in their own tongue: cf. Wellhausen Einl. (2 )p. 22.

    I just did a quick check, and interestingly, Josephus does not use it at all. Philo only seems to use it in quotations of the LXX. OTOH, it does show up in some classical authors, but the NT is near the top: Perseus Frequency Results for ιδου
    Mark G. Vitalis Hoffman
    Professor of Biblical Studies
    Lutheran Theological Seminary at Gettysburg
    ltsg.edu - CrossMarks.com
    Biblical Studies and Technological Tools

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISalzman View Post
    Would you guys think that ἰδοὺ could be thought of in similar terms (i.e., as a deictic particle)?
    I absolutely would. It seems to me somewhere in the deep recesses of my shallow mind that I've heard ἰδοὺ called a deictic particle.
    καὶ ὑπὲρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν ἵνα οἱ ζῶντες μηκέτι ἑαυτοῖς ζῶσιν, ἀλλὰ τῷ ὑπὲρ αὐτῶν ἀποθανόντι καὶ ἐγερθέντι.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGVH View Post
    According to BDAG, ιδου is a "demonstrative or presentative particle that draws attention to what follows"

    And here's the entry from the EDNT (you should be able to figure out the Greek parts):
    [EDNT] ivdou, idou see, behold
    VIdou, is literally the aor. mid. imv. sg. (ivdou/, from o`ra,w), which is written as a demonstrative particle with the acute accent. The number of occurrences in the NT writings are (in order of frequency): Matthew 62, Luke 57, Revelation 26, Acts 23, Mark 7, James 6, John 4, Hebrews 4, Paul (only in 1-2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans) 9, Jude, and 1 Pet 1 each.
    VIdou, serves, like Heb. hinn¢h, to enliven the narrative, either to awaken attention (e.g., Luke 22:10; John 4:35; 1 Cor 15:51; 2 Cor 5:17; Jas 5:9; Jude 14; Rev 1:7; 9:12; 11:14), to introduce something new (e.g., after a gen. absolute in Matt 1:20; 2:1, 13, etc.: kai. ivdou,; Matt 2:9; 3:16, etc., also Luke-Acts: ivdou,), in the middle of a speech (Matt 23:34; Acts 2:7 ; 13:11; 20:22, 25), to emphasize the importance of a subject (Matt 19:27; Mark 10:28; Luke 13:16; 15:29; 19:8, etc.), or as a summons to more careful consideration and observation (Matt 10:16; 11:8; 22:4; Mark 14:41; Luke 2:48; 7:25). In connection with a noun or finite vb. the meaning is here/there is, here/there was, here/there comes/came ( Matt 3:17; 12:10; Luke 7:34; Acts 8:27, 36; John 19:5, in Revelation frequently ei=don kai. ivdou, [4:1; 6:2, 5, 8; 7:9; 14:1, 14]). BAGD s.v.; P. Fiedler, Die Formel "und siehe" im NT (1969); R. Van Otterloo, OPTAT 2 (1988) 34-64. [2:173]

    I guess I had assumed it was primarily a semiticism based on hinneh. The entry in Moulton/Milligan's VGNT (found in BW) appears to support that conclusion:
    Moulton (Proleg. p. 11) has shown that the frequency with which ivdou, (originally the imper. of eivdo,mhn and accented ivdou/) is used by certain NT writers is due to the fact that they were accustomed to the constant use of an equivalent interjection in their own tongue: cf. Wellhausen Einl. (2 )p. 22.

    I just did a quick check, and interestingly, Josephus does not use it at all. Philo only seems to use it in quotations of the LXX. OTOH, it does show up in some classical authors, but the NT is near the top: Perseus Frequency Results for ιδου
    Great and thorough response, Mark. Thanks! It would appear to me also, and rather clearly, that "it (idou) was primarily a semiticism based on hinneh." The two have an almost identical function. "Demonstrative," "presentative," and "deictic" are synonyms, no matter how you slice it.

    By the way, I really love the treatment in EDNT. I've never used that resource before. I will now!
    Last edited by ISalzman; 04-07-2012 at 07:41 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I absolutely would. It seems to me somewhere in the deep recesses of my shallow mind that I've heard ἰδοὺ called a deictic particle.
    Thanks, Lee, I agree.

    Irving

  10. #10
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    Default Semiticism?

    Quote Originally Posted by ISalzman View Post
    Great and thorough response, Mark. Thanks! It would appear to me also, and rather clearly, that "it (idou) was primarily a semiticism based on hinneh." The two have an almost identical function. "Demonstrative," "presentative," and "deictic" are synonyms, no matter how you slice it.
    Well, but the function can be found in many languages (such as the French voilą and voici) without any connection to Hebrew or other Semitic languages. Clearly ἰδού was used in nonbiblical Greek. The Moulton/Milligan VGNT that Mark cites goes on to say, "As showing, however, that the interjection was used in the Koine where no Hebraistic influence is predicable, we may cite...," followed by a series of quotations from the Oxyrhyncus Papyri and other texts. LSJM unabridged (an expensive unlock, but so worth it) cites a variety of nonbiblical sources for ἰδού. The Perseus link that Mark gave seemed to me to have some false hits, but I may have been using it wrong. I tried a simple Perseus search on i)dou/ myself, and did find a number of nonbiblical texts that use it (although the ones from plays may just be introducing new speakers).

    What does seem to be based on Hebrew (and this seems to be Moulton/Milligan's point) is the frequency with which ἰδού occurs in biblical Greek. I.e., it was available in ordinary Greek speech when the Hebrew texts were rendered into Greek, but wasn't used as often there as הִנֵּה is used in biblical Hebrew. Thus ἰδού appears more often in LXX than it would in ordinary Greek, and (differing hesitantly with the learned M/M!) I suspect it is that frequency rather than hearing deictic interjections in their daily use of Hebrew or Aramaic that influenced some NT writers. This would be particularly true of
    • Luke-Acts, whose writer is hardly likely to be a native speaker of a Semitic language but is well known to be highly imitative of LXX style (and in Acts is unlikely to be constrained by the use of written sources); and
    • Paul, who may or may not have spoken Aramaic in daily life, but was writing to people who certainly did not, and uses ἰδού 8 times not in LXX quotations (6 in 2 Corinthians for some reason).

    The authors of Matthew and Revelation, who use ἰδού a lot, would be more likely, perhaps, to use Semitic languages in daily life. It is interesting that the author of Hebrews, who writes the most elegant Greek in the NT, uses ἰδού only in scripture quotes; and that 2 Peter, which is likely to be under the influence of second-century atticizing (if one accepts the opinion of some scholars, such as J. M. Rife here), does not use it at all.

    Well, that went on longer than I intended! It's an interesting subject. My main point is that the mere presence of ἰδού in LXX and NT is not necessarily a semiticism (since it was used as a deictic interjection in the ordinary Greek of the time), but that its surprising frequency there is likely due to the greater frequency of הִנֵּה in biblical Hebrew than ἰδού in everyday Greek.
    David Rensberger
    Atlanta, Georgia

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