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Thread: A Study of Morality

  1. #21
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    I was on the swim team at A&M, and one night after we had concluded a meet in Austin, which is the home of our arch rival, the University of Texas, whose nom de guerre is "Longhorns", but whom we call "T-sips", we all went out for refreshments.

    I ended up at the bar between two T-sips. I had a full glass of beer, and I told the T-sip on my left to place the index finger of his right hand on the bar, which he did. I rubbed the bottom of my full glass of beer over his finger and asked him if felt a very special sensaton. He replied no.

    I went, "Hmmm." Then I told him to place the index finger of his left hand on the bar, and he again complied. I once again rubbed the bottom of my full glass of beer over his finger and asked him if he felt a very special sensation this time. Once again he told me he had not.

    Once again I went, "Hmmmm."

    So now I told him to put both index fingers on the bar right next to each other. In other words, the index finger of his left hand was on the bar right next to the index finger of his right hand.

    I set my full glass of beer on his two index fingers and walked away. -

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by newnature View Post
    At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price.

    The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal.

    Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Because of the length of these reasoning’s, read more at,

    http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.co...max-results=12

    Thanks for any insight.
    deleted for clarity
    Last edited by Heman; 12-27-2013 at 03:09 PM.

  3. #23

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    Well, I am not a first time poster but I WAS going to ask a theological question a couple of days ago. (I asked where the "Other" forum was.) I hesitated because I didn't want to start a debate. Perhaps my decision not to was a wise one?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by newnature View Post
    At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price.

    The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal.

    Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with.
    Thanks for any insight.
    Well, you are partly correct, however, it is not a question of morality, it is a test of obedience. The test was conducted by God just as He used the talking Donkey as an adversary to test Balaam: Numbers 22:27 (KJV)
    27 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and
    Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.

    To imply any more than that is to go beyond what the scripture says.

    1 Chronicles 21:15 (KJV)
    15
    And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

    Matthew explains what is meant by an enemy: It correctly states
    that the word ζιζάνιον is cheat a troublesome weed in the grαinfields, resembling wheat, in our lit. only ρl. and then BAG inserts the word (tares).
    (mistakenly) cockle, tares which are a (synonym)
    Matthew 13:26-29 (Darby)
    26
    But when the blade shot up and produced fruit, then appeared the darnel also. 27 And the bondmen of the householder came up and said to him, Sir, hast thou not sown good seed in thy field? whence then has it darnel?
    28
    And he said to them, A man [that is] an enemy has done this. And the bondmen said to him, Wilt thou then that we should go and gather it [up]? 29 But he said, No; lest [in] gathering the darnel ye should root up the wheat with it.

    After a brief statement of some facts relating to the use of the neuter in the LXX, he continues: 'The masculine ο πονηρος is used, as is also its Hebrew equivalent, to designate a wicked man, when an individual is pointed out; but it is never used in the Septuagint to designate the ' Evil One.' It certainly would not occur to any one familiar with the language of the Septuagint, to interpret the word as equivalent to Satan'
    Lightfoot P. 273-283 Revision of the English Version of the New Testament

    Last edited by Heman; 12-27-2013 at 03:55 PM.

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