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Thread: A Study of Morality

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  1. #1
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    Default A Study of Morality

    At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price.

    The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal.

    Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Because of the length of these reasoning’s, read more at,

    http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.co...max-results=12

    Thanks for any insight.

  2. #2
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    Default Joe Schloe From Muleshoe Tells It Like It Is

    Well now, ‘ol Joe Schloe from Muleshoe (pronounced“Sch-low”) don’t rightly agree. That’s because ‘ol Joe Schloe from Muleshoe is a staunch five-pointer, and you don’t even want to try to debate him on it.

    Nevertheless, ‘ol Joe said that if you ever did want to debate him on it, well then, go on down to Muleshoe and he’ll receive you. Here’s directions –
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muleshoe,_Texas

    When you get there, just ask anybody you see where Joe Schloe lives, and they’ll either walk you right over or give you a ride. ‘Course, when you get to the gate at Joe Schloe’s property, just sit yourself down and wait a spell, because it takes a good twenty or thirty minutes to get from Joe’s great-house to the border of his property out by the road there. Also, I wouldn’t advise making use of the little hut that ‘ol Joe put out there for people to wait in. Oh, the hut is nice and all, but every now and then a rattler has been known to take up residence there and coil hisself to sleep. In case you don’t know, you don’t want to accidently wake one of them critters, so as long as the weather is bearable, just wait by the fence. ‘Ol Joe knows you’re there, and he’ll send somebody for you directly.

    And don’t worry about refreshments or BYO, either, ‘cause ‘ol Joe Schloe from Muleshoe is about as hospitable as they come, even to those who don’t see eye to eye with him.
    ‘Course, now ‘ol Joe prefers Schlitz on a hot day (don’t how or where ‘ol Joe keeps coming up with Schlitz, seeing as how they quit making it so long ago, but he never fails to produce a can whenever he wants), and on a cold day he likes hot tea with milk and sugar. Real sugar. ‘Ol Joe won’t even look at that counterfeit stuff.

    But if you don’t like a cold one on a hot day, not to worry. ‘Ol Joe has everythng under the sun, like iced tea, apple juice, soda pop, and anything else you can think of. Choclate shakes, vanilla shakes, whatever. He even has one of them real old machines that spits out either root beer or Dr.Pepper. You put a nickel in the slot and out comes one of them old-fashioned bottles, just like when Beaver and Wally and Eddie Haskal was kids. And don’tworry about the nickel. ‘Ol joe has a big bowl of ‘em right there on the top of the machine, so you can get as many as you want.

    The only time I ever heard of ‘ol Joe taking a shot of hard liquor was that time he confronted the tornado. Legend has it that ‘ol Joe was standin’ right there in the middle of Main Street with the tornado bearding down and coming straight at him. It was reported that ‘ol Joe at that moment took one pull on the sour mash jug he was carryin’ in his left hand. In his right hand was somthin’ else.

    See, it was common knowledge that ‘ol Slewfoot and his buddies (the same Slewfoot that tricked old Adam and Eve in that there garden you was talkin’ about), so it was common knowledge, I say, that ‘ol Slewfootand his buddies gave Muleshoe a wide steer because of ‘ol Joe. They’d suffered plenty of whippings and defeats at Joe’s masterful hand in the past, and that’s because ‘ol Joe had a secret weapon that he had fashioned very clandestinely inhis giant barn one day. Nobody knew exactly what it was, but the best description of it was that it was kind of a modified electric cattle prod,kinda like a cross between that which the auctioneer uses and Ghostbusters.

    Well, that’s what ‘ol Joe had in his right hand the day the tornado came to Muleshoe. Witnesses stated that when ‘ol Joe saw that tornado coming right down Main Street that he grabbed his weapon and the sour mash jug and headed right out into the middle of the road, directly in the path of the tornado. It is also reported that Joe Schloe from Muleshoe muttered the following to the tornado as he charged out the door, “There ain’t room enoughin this town for the both of us, and I ain’t leaving!”

    It’s long been known, of course, that ‘ol Slewfoot and his cronies are the secret agents behind weather disasters such as tornadoes and hurricanes and whatnot. That’s why ‘ol Joe took his “devil whipper” with him, for that is what he called his weapon.

    The rest is history. Every witness there that day would later testify that when that tornado got about a hundred feet away from ‘ol Joe that the funnel suddenly lifted up off the ground and soared up to four or five hundred feet in the air. It didn’tcome down again until it had skipped completely over Muleshoe and was a mile or two down the road, completely out in the open where no harm could be done.

    When Joe walked back inside everybody looked at him with that sense of awe and amazement that all who know ‘ol Joe apprise him with. And of course, everybody thought -- no matter who Joe Schloe from Muleshoe was – everybody thought that he certainly hadto be shaken by this ordeal.

    But ‘ol Joe quickly dispelled that ill-begotton notion. Heclapped his hands in a sort of high-five, threw his old head back and did a big hee-haw, and then remarked wryly, “Cmon, boys, let’s go get us a Schlitz!”

    And then the whole town just followed him down the road in unison, each one eminently aware that he was part of one of those remarkable episodes of history that just seem to swirl around Joe Schloe from Muleshoe like sand in a sandstorm.

    Anyway, ‘ol Joe will be happy to set you straight about what happened in the garden between Slewfoot and Adam and Eve. I were you, I’d makethe trip. Tell him Adelphos sent you.
    Last edited by Adelphos; 04-17-2011 at 03:39 PM.

  3. #3
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    I sense that there is some deeper level to your satirical comment and maybe I should just let it go, but would you help unravel it a bit more for me. What's the significance of this character from this city?
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
    LibraryThing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hanel View Post
    I sense that there is some deeper level to your satirical comment and maybe I should just let it go, but would you help unravel it a bit more for me. What's the significance of this character from this city?
    What? Joe Schloe from Muleshoe? You need to go sit lotus-lapped and stare at you navel till it comes to you. I mean, really!!!

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    Default By The Way...

    By the way, 'ol Joe hisself told me to my face one day that he wouldn't be caught dead driving a Mac. In fact, I've seen him use iMac Notebooks for target practice out on his berm. That's also where he's tested a lot of strange weapons for the militarty, including his "devil whipper", except he's never let anybody ever even hold his "devil whipper" before, much less use it.

    He did let me touch it one time, but then he shoved me away real fast, like it was gonna hurt me or something.

    Anyway, 'ol Joe is an avid user of BibleWorks.

    'Course, it's no secret these days that 'ol Joe was THE primary secret investor of Bill Gates and Paul Allen and all them other guys way back when. And Warren Buffett has been on the phone to 'ol Joe several times a week for decades asking his advice. In fact, I was with 'ol Joe the other day when Warren Buffet called. After they hung up 'ol Joe turned to me with a puzzled smile and asked, "When's the last time that guy put out a record, anyway?"

    It's a shame the passenger ship deal fell through. 'Ol Joe was in negotiations to buy the latest passenger ship, but he said he woudn't pay one penny over a billion for it, and the shipline wanted one point two.

    It wasn't that 'ol Joe couldn't afford it. Heck, he could buy a whole fleet of 'em and still not put a dent in his portfolio. But it was the principal of the thing.

    The cruiseline tried to explain to him that their cost was more than one point two, but when 'ol Joe says a billion, he means a billion. So the deal fell lthrough.

    When it was all over 'ol Joe just gave us all that sly grin and said, "Shucks. I'lll be danged if I woulda known where to put the dad-blamed thang anyway. Let's go get us a Schlitz!"
    Last edited by Adelphos; 04-17-2011 at 09:29 PM.

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    Literary alter ego, probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by newnature View Post
    At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price.

    The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal.

    Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Because of the length of these reasoning’s, read more at,

    http://thatlifeyahwehhas.blogspot.co...max-results=12

    Thanks for any insight.
    deleted for clarity
    Last edited by Heman; 12-27-2013 at 02:09 PM.

  8. #8

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    Well, I am not a first time poster but I WAS going to ask a theological question a couple of days ago. (I asked where the "Other" forum was.) I hesitated because I didn't want to start a debate. Perhaps my decision not to was a wise one?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by newnature View Post
    At that fateful moment, Adam and Eve are standing together at the tree, and although only the woman and the serpent speak, Adam was present, and it seems he accepted the fruit that his wife handed him. He was fully complicitous, and indeed, Yahweh holds him responsible. Yahweh reproaches Adam. Adam says: Well, Eve handed to me. She gave it to me. Eve explains, the serpent tricked me. Yahweh vents his fury on all three, and he does so in ascending order: first the serpent for his trickery and then the woman, and finally the man. The doctrine of original sin, which is the idea that humans after Adam are born into a state of sin, by definition. The actions of Adam and Eve bring death to the human race, they don’t bring a state of utter and unredeemed sinfulness. In fact, humans have moral choice in each and every age. Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the knowledge of good and bad, they also lose their harmonious relationship with nature. There had been a peaceful relationship between creatures and humans to that point. Humans are banished now from the Garden. It used to yield its fruits to them without any labor, but now humans have to toil for food and the earth yields its fruits only stintingly. The humans will learn that the concomitant of their freedom is responsibility. Their first act of defiance is punished harshly. So they learn, that the moral choices and actions of humans have consequences that have to be borne by the perpetrator. Evil is a product of human behavior, not a principal inherent in the cosmos; man’s disobedience is the cause of the human predicament. So knowledge or wisdom or perhaps moral freedom, seems to come at a very high price.

    The disobedience happens in a rather backhanded way. It’s interesting, Yahweh tells Adam before the creation of Eve that he’s not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, lest you die. Eve doesn’t hear this command directly, she hasn’t been created. Then we meet the cunning serpent, and although many will identify the serpent as Satan, an enticer, a tempter, some sort of evil creature, the serpent doesn’t seem to be so. The serpent in Eden is simply a talking animal.

    Adam and Eve after eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and bad are like Yahweh; they have become wise in that they have learned they have moral choice. They have free will, they can defy Yahweh and Yahweh’s plans for them in a way that animals and natural phenomena cannot. But now that means there is a serious danger here, Yahweh says, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and life forever!” So the acceptance of mortality as an inescapable part of the human condition, the quest for immortality, Yahweh could not afford to allow them access to the tree of life, and Yahweh maintains the upper hand in this, the fact that they eventually must die. Yahweh has to punt the ball, he has to modify his plans by barring access to the tree of life, humans are going to be a force to be reckoned with.
    Thanks for any insight.
    Well, you are partly correct, however, it is not a question of morality, it is a test of obedience. The test was conducted by God just as He used the talking Donkey as an adversary to test Balaam: Numbers 22:27 (KJV)
    27 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and
    Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.

    To imply any more than that is to go beyond what the scripture says.

    1 Chronicles 21:15 (KJV)
    15
    And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.

    Matthew explains what is meant by an enemy: It correctly states
    that the word ζιζάνιον is cheat a troublesome weed in the grαinfields, resembling wheat, in our lit. only ρl. and then BAG inserts the word (tares).
    (mistakenly) cockle, tares which are a (synonym)
    Matthew 13:26-29 (Darby)
    26
    But when the blade shot up and produced fruit, then appeared the darnel also. 27 And the bondmen of the householder came up and said to him, Sir, hast thou not sown good seed in thy field? whence then has it darnel?
    28
    And he said to them, A man [that is] an enemy has done this. And the bondmen said to him, Wilt thou then that we should go and gather it [up]? 29 But he said, No; lest [in] gathering the darnel ye should root up the wheat with it.

    After a brief statement of some facts relating to the use of the neuter in the LXX, he continues: 'The masculine ο πονηρος is used, as is also its Hebrew equivalent, to designate a wicked man, when an individual is pointed out; but it is never used in the Septuagint to designate the ' Evil One.' It certainly would not occur to any one familiar with the language of the Septuagint, to interpret the word as equivalent to Satan'
    Lightfoot P. 273-283 Revision of the English Version of the New Testament

    Last edited by Heman; 12-27-2013 at 02:55 PM.

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