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Thread: search Hebrew for et asher preceded by a noun or pronoun

  1. #1

    Default search Hebrew for et asher preceded by a noun or pronoun

    I want to search for "et asher" preceded by a noun. The noun could be an actual noun, or a pronoun suffix on a preposition or verb.

    'asher@Pr* et@P* will give me all the et asher's
    where asher is aleph shin resh
    and et is aleph tuf

    Then I add *@n*, and I just get the 38 et asher's preceded by a noun

    If I replace *@n* by *@Pp+S[123]*, I get the 15 et asher's preceded by a preposition having a pronoun suffix.

    Then I put (/ ) around the last 2 to make them "or", but I get an error.

    Maybe I should just do each of the 3 separately?

    thanks.

    -Steve Miller
    Detroit
    www.voiceInWilderness.info

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,206

    Default

    Hey Steve,

    I'll allow others more experienced than I to chime in on the correct search syntax that you require. But I couldn't help but wonder if your motivation for the search was prompted by Zech 12:10 ("'et 'asher daqaru").

    Irving

  3. #3

    Default

    Irving,
    That's amazing. Yes, you hit the nail on the head.

    Can you shed any light on the meaning?

    -Steve Miller
    Detroit

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    473

    Default ברוכים הבאים

    שלום מר מילר
    נעים מאוד וברוך הבא


    Welcome to the BibleWorks user forums Mr. Miller!

    I got the same results as you, and I then exported both word lists from the final two searches and found that only two verses are in common with both list:
    WTM Gen 49:1
    WTM Rut 2:18


    Hey Irving, and Steve so as not to take this thread of topic of command line query(which I'd like to know the answer to), I have created thread another thread for the discussion of Zechariah 12:10 which I'd also like to hear your take on.
    Here in the non-BibleWorks section of the forms: http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?4755-Zechariah-10-12-Question&p=24195#post24195
    Last edited by bkMitchell; 11-24-2010 at 08:47 AM.
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2

    Default Help with lemma searches

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller View Post
    I want to search for "et asher" preceded by a noun. The noun could be an actual noun, or a pronoun suffix on a preposition or verb.

    'asher@Pr* et@P* will give me all the et asher's
    where asher is aleph shin resh
    and et is aleph tuf

    Then I add *@n*, and I just get the 38 et asher's preceded by a noun

    If I replace *@n* by *@Pp+S[123]*, I get the 15 et asher's preceded by a preposition having a pronoun suffix.

    Then I put (/ ) around the last 2 to make them "or", but I get an error.

    Maybe I should just do each of the 3 separately?

    thanks.

    -Steve Miller
    Detroit
    www.voiceInWilderness.info

    Steve and others,

    I'm new to lemma searches and struck out attempting to follow your examples. If you can help provide some guidance, I will be very appreciative.

    Based on your title, I assume you are searching either in WTT or WTM. I've tried your first search string in both as well as other versions and always receive errors. I have attached an image of one of the errors I receive. If I do the same search in NKJ/WTM then it merely reports not being able to find "et" in the search version.

    I've read the Help file on lemma searches, but since I've not delved into them before, I don't find the information to be particularly helpful.

    My questions are 1st, what search version should I set to successfully run your search strings? 2nd, If I change the search version to WTM, the search string obviously fails since I'm attempting an English search in a Hebrew Morphology database. What am I doing wrong?

    I've looked through all the Flag settings to look for something that may be preventing successful searches, but that didn't turn up anything obvious to me.

    Please tell me if you can help, or point me in the right direction.

    Blessings,
    Mark

    Name:  Bibleworks search error.jpg
Views: 120
Size:  371.8 KB
    Last edited by trevithick; 11-28-2010 at 09:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    473

    Default

    Greetings Mark,


    To conduct a morphological search a morphologically tagged text is required. Most texts in BW use a three letter acronym or abbreviation. If the last letter of an acronym is Latin letter 'M' this indicates that it is a morphologically tagged text. Taking that into account one should chose WTM to conduct morphological queries. (the JDP is an exception to these rules as it is also a morphologically tagged text)

    Okay let's get started!

    (1) Selected the WTM as your search version
    (do this by simply typing in WTM on the command line)

    (2) Next, type in 'אשר@Pr* את@P* on the command line

    (3) Hit the 'enter' button on your keyboard to initiate the query

    If you can successfully conduced the first query come back here I will explain the rest to you.

    If, you are not successfully return and I will try explaining this in a different way.

    Another, thing you could do is this:
    (1)Open Zech 12:10 in the browse window
    (2)with your mouse highlight the Hebrew textאת אשר
    3)Left click on it
    (4)A pop-up menu will open
    (5) select search on 'phrase'
    (6) Search
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,206

    Default

    Mark, your problem is that you are searching Hebrew databases (WTT, WTM) with English characters in your search term. That will never work. If you search on the Hebrew databases, you must use a Hebrew search term.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,102

    Default

    One bit of advice. It appears to me that Mark copied the search string from the post and pasted it into the command line. That doesn't work. You always need to type in the search terms, not paste them.
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
    LibraryThing!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Thank you all for your kind responses.

    Yes, I was copying and pasting the search string used in the example which was in English. I did attempt to enter it in Hebrew manually, but ran into problems with the @ symbol and the characters that followed. I believe I know how to get past that problem now.

    When I type WTM in the search window, I did try that before, I always get WTM/WTT. Is that proper or do I have a setting that is not correct?

    Looking up Zechariah 12:10 in WTT was the only way I finally was successful in getting it to search for that phrase.

    Hopefully a little practice will hone this new found ability and do some deeper studies.

    Thanks again to all who responded.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trevithick View Post
    Thank you all for your kind responses.

    Yes, I was copying and pasting the search string used in the example which was in English. I did attempt to enter it in Hebrew manually, but ran into problems with the @ symbol and the characters that followed. I believe I know how to get past that problem now.
    Yeah the problem with @ means that you were searching the WTT version and not WTM. The same thing would happen in Greek if you try typing the @ in BGT version rather than BGM.
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
    LibraryThing!

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