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Thread: Patrick Spicer video #2

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    4

    Default Patrick Spicer video #2

    Hello,

    I am currently working my way through the Patrick Spicer videos and specifically video #2. At about 9 minutes or so into the video he types in .lord Jesus and then proceeds to tell the # of hits returned and # of verses--
    163 verses and 183 hits. However my search returns 162 verses and 181 hits using the same translation.
    His returns Luke 5:8 but mine does not show it in the search window. There is probably a simple explanation--please show it to me.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    923

    Default

    Just a guess at why there is a difference, but in Luke 5:8 Jesus' has an apostrophe, so it does not show up when you search for Jesus without an apostrophe. There may be some versions where the apostrophe is not considered part of the word, while it is in others. If you search for .lord Jesus* the extra verse will be included in the search results.
    Mark Eddy

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
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    4

    Default

    Mark,

    Thanks for your reply--I noticed the -Jesus'-as well but why did he get the hit (when I didn't) when I was using the same translation (I believe he was using the ESV).

    Thanks

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    923

    Default

    When I do the search for .lord Jesus in ESV (2011 edition, currently in 9) I get 162 verses and 340 hits. When I do the search for .lord Jesus* I get 163 verses and 343 hits. When I do the searches in ESVO (2008 edition, in earlier versions of BW) I get the same results. So my guess is that the video did not use ESV. But I haven't looked at the video. Other English editions which have had recent changes include NIV, where the new NIV finds 171 verses and the old NIV finds only 167. And there is the not quite so recently changed NAS-NAU. NAS finds 163 verses without the asterisk. NAU finds 164. None display Luke 5:8. In addition, all the "hits" totals are all much higher on my computer than in the video. I think there are options to count hits differently, but I have not played around with changing those settings.
    Sorry I can't be much more help.
    Mark Eddy

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    201

    Default

    There is setting that makes the difference.
    Tools
    Options
    General
    Flags [Miscellaneous Configuration Flags]
    Command Line Search Options
    Enable Smart Apostrophes (English text only)

    If you check this last one, the third little box under the command line will turn from green to yellow to remind you that this option is in effect.

    BW help says of this little status box:
    Third box: This is yellow if accent-sensitive searching is on for the current search version or if "smart apostrophes" is turned on for English versions.

    With this option set on I got 163 verses, 3 forms using ESV.
    With the option set off I got 162 verses, 2 forms

    Concerning the difference in number of hits between bkjones and Mark Eddy.
    This comes from another Command Line Search Option -- "Compute Search Window hits by permutations"
    bkjones had it set on, Mark had it set off. BW help says this about that:
    Compute Search Window hits by permutation
    If this option is set, Command Line search hits will be computed by permutation. Statistics for hits will include the various combinations of words possible with the search criteria. If this is turned off, the number of hits will be the same as the number of words highlighted.
    This explains the difference between 183 (permutations on) and 343 hits (permutations off)

    --Jim
    Last edited by Jim Wert; 12-04-2014 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Read Marks last post more carefully.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    201

    Default Follow up on BW and counting permutations of hits

    When I looked more closely at the hit count for 'lord jesus in ESV I noticed something interesting.
    I have the Command Line Search Option "Add multiple hits parameter to Search Window verse list" set on, so an *2 show up after the verse reference if there are 2 hits in a verse.

    With permutation counting flag set on, verses with Lord and Jesus and one more of either L or J have an *2, while verses with Lord and Jesus and 2 more of L and/or J have an *4. There are no *3's showing.
    When I took the number of verses and added 1 for each *2, and added 3 for each *4, I got the number that BW showed for hits.

    With permutation counting flag set off, all found verses had an *2, *3, or *4 reflecting the number of words found. I assume that the total hits was an accurate count of the number of individual words found in those verses (I haven't bothered to do the math).

    The Stats window allows you to specify hits or verses as the unit of analysis. If you display hits it is affected by permutations on or off. If you display verses it should not be affected.

    My conclusions from all this are:
    1. The question of how to count hits only arises for multiple-word searches. (I haven't begun thinking about the implication for OR searches, or even string searches. And I will try to not begin.)
    2. Setting the flag to count permutations is useful in that the multiple hit * shows up only for the verses that more than meet the search criteria. Having an *2 on every verse in the search window makes it hard to pick out the *3's and *4's.
    3. Setting the flag to count permutations creates a hit count that is, to me, not obvious. It does give a rough indication of how many times your combination of words was found, with an ambiguous indication of additional duplicates. When I do searches beyond single word ones

    My suggestion: If you are doing multiple word AND searches and hit counts are important to you, take a minute to decide what it is you want to count.

    --Jim

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