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Thread: Bible Works in the Church Revisited

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by qandy View Post
    ... If Glenn is amenable, the material will soon be available for anyone to print out from BW (without bracketed keres botching up the exportation to Word!).
    This sounds awesome and I can imagine the BW staff should be thrilled. Although, I am not confident they are still reading this thread. Then again, I was pleasantly surprised they had been reading it earlier.

    If you want to make a suggestion use the link below:
    http://www.bibleworks.com/ideas.html

    You can read more about it here:
    http://kb.bibleworksllc.com/ikb/ques...?questionid=56


    Now, what about those that don't use MS Word for Hebrew text, but do use DavkWriter and OpenOffice? Will the Keres sill cause issues for us?

    So, you must be Mr. A.F. writing under the pseudonym Qandy?
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


  2. #42
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    So, you must be Mr. A.F. writing under the pseudonym Qandy
    Ever since I was upbraided by the cook at the church dinner for citicizing my pastor by name in public (BW forums are not a closed platform), I've stopped using given names.

    Now, what about those that don't use MS Word for Hebrew text, but do use DavkWriter and OpenOffice? Will the Keres sill cause issues for us
    The problem, Brian. is that if I want to import Biblical Hebrew text from BW into a Word document, and that text has a kere, alot of fiddling is involved to get it right in the document; since the brackets aren't in Hebrew. Thus 1 Sam 5:12 version BW:

    וְהָאֲנָשִׁים אֲשֶׁר לֹא־מֵתוּ הֻכּוּ )בָּעֳפָלִים] (בַּטְּחֹרִים[ וַתַּעַל שַׁוְעַת הָעִיר הַשָּׁמָיִם


    becomes jarbled when imported into a left to right moving Word document.

    As if "For God so loved the world that He (gave) [gave His] only begotten Son that whosoever" becomes "only begotten Son that whosoever ]gave His) [gave( For God so Loved the world that He" when exported to Word. What a confusion imbedded keres cause! I suggested previously that keres be optional and indicated via pop up balloon "There is a kere; click here to see it!", but I'm afraid that that's beyond the capabilities of the BW programmers. I don't know about Davka, but I'm sure Open Office is the same as Word.
    For those interested in the genesis of the publication of the Samuel fragments, here's a timeline:
    1) late 1980's: Hershel Shanks and the Biblical Archaeological Review sue a small group of scholars for rights to see the photographs of the fragments.
    2) 1990: The suit is successful, and Eisenman/Robinson publish A Facsimile Edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The photos are small and of mediocre quality and poorly organized.
    3) c. 1992: Ted Herbert, in the course of a PhD on Chronicles for Cambridge University, travels to Jerusalem and learns that the scroll archive is open for public inspection. He finds the Samuel fragments with Cross' identifications in handwriting on the backs. Herbert shifts gears and goes to work on the Second Samuel material, which forms about 80% of the 4QSam-a corpus.
    4) Nov. 1996: Fincke leaves Heidelberg, Germany, where he learned modern Hebrew at the School of Jewish Studies, and arrives in Jerusalem
    5) June-September 1997: Fincke passes the Hebrew exemption exam and begins a course in the Dead Sea scrolls with Emmanuel Tov, the publisher of the Discoveries in the Judaean Desert series.
    6) April 1998: As paper topic Fincke chooses the first four columns of 4QSam-a, which Cross had cursorily published in 1953.
    7) June 1998: Herbert's PhD dissertation is made available in a publication by Brill in the Studies on the Texts of the Desert of Judaea series (#22). In it, Herbert includes column reconstrucftions of the Second Samuel material, with photos from the Eisenman/Robinson books set in place and accompanying text explaining the reconstruction of what's missing. An appendix lists the fragment identifications for both First and Second Samuel. Fincke receives a B for the paper and shows it to Emile Puech at the Ecole Biblique, who intercedes with Florentino Garcia Martinez to get it published in Revue de Qumran. Fincke begins work on revising his paper for publication. He learns to use Word 1997 in Hebrew on the Hebrew University computers.
    8) 2000: The paper finished and submitted for publication, Fincke spends the downtime verifying Herbert's reconstructions and applying the methodologies of Puech and Herbert to the task of getting the First Samuel material published. Garcia Martinez agrees to have the whole work, which exceeds the framework of an article, published in Studies on Texts of the Desert of Judaea as #43. The condition is that the completion predates the long-awaited Discoveries in the Judaean Desert volume on the Fourth Cave Samuel fragments (DJD 17).
    9) June-September 2001: Fincke leaves Israel before the start of the second intifada, Fincke's article appears in RevQ 76, and Fincke submits the manuscript of The Samuel Scroll Restored to Brill.
    10) 2002-2005: In the course of study at Trinity Western University, Fincke uses Fernandez Marcos' edition of the Lucianic text of 1-2 Samuel to correct and refine his own variant apparatus. He also engages and revises the reconstructions of 4QSam-b from 1953 (Cross, JBL 74) and 1997 (Cross/Parry, BASOR 306). .
    11) June 2005: DJD 17 appears. It includes: I: Cross' reconstructions of 4QSam-a. These are a step backward from the works of Herbert and Fincke, since they disregard the issue of column arrangement. II: A slight revision of the preliminary publications of 4QSam-b (see above). III. A reprint of Ulrich's edition of 4QSam-c from 1979 (BASOR 235). IV. Plates with infrafed photographs of all the Cave Four Samuel fragments, including those not yet identified due to their small size and paucity of letters/words.
    12) 2005-2007: Using the definitive photos, Fincke improves his reconstructions, overhauls his book and completes a transcription into Unicode Hebrew of all the Samuel material, including 1QSam, originally published in 1955 in DJD 1. The evidence of the fragments is distinguished from reconstructed text via underloining.
    13) August 2007: In a paper delivered at the triennial IOSOT conference in Ljubljana, Fincke highlights errors in the DJD 17 reconstructions of 4QSam-a, as well as invalid identifications, and offers several new identifications of his own.

    Attached is a .pdf of column 42, covering 2 Sam 13:13 - 14:3. The photos are at DJD 17, Plate XVIIIa, where it is not apparent that they have text from all but two ofl the lines of the column. See Herbert's arrangement of the photos at page 260. Note at line 9: אהבו כי בכורו "(David) loved him because (he was) his firstborn". These words are part of a sentence that isn't in the masoretic text of 2 Sam 13:21, but is in the Septuagint. The advantage of having all this material on BW is that a pastor writing a sermon on a passage in 1-2 Samuel can check to see if there's a variant from the scrolls. Or he can make a printout of the whole corpus and carry it in his pocket for reading between hospital calls.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by qandy View Post
    The problem, Brian. is that if I want to import Biblical Hebrew text from BW into a Word document, and that text has a kere, alot of fiddling is involved to get it right in the document; since the brackets aren't in Hebrew. Thus 1 Sam 5:12 version BW:

    וְהָאֲנָשִׁים אֲשֶׁר לֹא־מֵתוּ הֻכּוּ )בָּעֳפָלִים] (בַּטְּחֹרִים[ וַתַּעַל שַׁוְעַת הָעִיר הַשָּׁמָיִם
    becomes jarbled when imported into a left to right moving Word document.

    Ah, I have also encountered this situation but when pasting text on to the forums.

    So, you studied Modern Hebrew before, classical Hebrew? That's great, I wish more theologians/Biblical scholars would get a command of Hebrew(or Greek) well enough to internalize it the way they do their native language rather than the 'stop and parse' method so often used in many seminaries. And, you studied with Emmanuel Tov, too.


    I have read through your PDF and you've really done good work.
    Unfortunately, BibleWorks can not , yet, import unicode Hebrew/Greek text into the version database compiler. So, you would probably have to convert that text to BetaCode/CCAT formate, unless you already have made a module of it.

    Hypothetically, speaking the PDF in question in BetaCode/CCAT might look something like this:
    (also a Zip folder with prototype database files(or a rough draft) of this called AFD should be attached at the bottom of this page. The D means database and you know what the A and F mean. It's not perfect and it can be easily edited, but is only meant to give an idea of what it would look like in BibleWorks)


    2 Sam 13:13-14:3


    2Sa 13:13 W)NY )WLWK )T XRPTY W)TH THYH K)XD HNBLYM BY$R)L W(TH DBR N) )L HMLK KY L) YMN(NY MMK


    2Sa 13:14 WLW) )BH L$MW( BQWLH WYXZQ MMNH WY(NH WY$KB )TH


    2Sa 13:15 WY$N)H )MNWN $N)H GDWLH M)D KY GDWLH H$N)H )$R $N)H MN H)HBH )$R )HBH WY)MR LH )MNWN QWMY LKY


    2Sa 13:16 WTW)MR LW TMR L) )XY KY) GDWLH HR(H HZ)T M)XRT )$R ($YTH (MY L$LXNY WL) )BH
    L$MW( LH


    2Sa 13:17 WYQR) )T N(RW M$RTW WYWC)H HXWCH WN(L HDLT )XRYH


    2Sa 13:19 WTQX TMR )PR (L R)$H WKTWNT HPSYM )$R (LYH QR(H WT$M )T YDYH (L R)$H WTLK HLWK WZ(QH


    2Sa 13:21 WHMLK DWYD $M( )T KWL HDBRYM H)LH WYXR LW M)D WLW KL)B )XR )MNWN BNW )HBW KY BKWRW HW)


    2Sa 13:22 WL) DBR )B$LWM (M )MNWN LMR( W(D +WB KY $N) )B$LWM )T )MNWN (L DBR )$R (NH )T TMR )XWTW


    2Sa 13:23 WYHY L$NTYM YMYM WYHYW GWZZY C)N )B$LWM BB(L XCWR )$R (M )PRYM WYQR) )B$LWM LKWL BNY HMLK


    2Sa 13:24 WYBW) )B$LWM )L HMLK WYY)MR HNH N) GWZZYM L(BDK YLK N) HMLK W(BDYW )L (BDW


    2Sa 13:25 WY)MR HMLK )L )B$LWM )L BNY )L NLK KLNW WLW) NKBWD (LYK WYPCR BW WLW) )BH LLKT WYBRKHW


    2Sa 13:26 WY)MR LW )B$LWM L) YLK N) )MNWN )XY WY)MR LW HMLK LMH YLK (MK


    2Sa 13:27 WYPCR BW )B$LWM WY$LX )TW )T )MNWN W)T KWL BNY HMLK WY($ )B$LWM LW M$TH KM$TH HMLK


    2Sa 13:28 WYCW )B$LWM )T N(RYW L)MWR R)W N) K)$R +WB LB )MNWN BYYN W)MRTY )LYKM HKW )T )MNWN WMTTM )TW )L TYR)W KY) )NY CWYTY )TKM XZQW WHYW LBNY XYL


    2Sa 13:29 WY($W N(RY )B$LWM L)MNWN K)$R CWH )TM WYQWMW KL BNY HMLK WYRKBW )Y$ (L PRDW WYNWSW


    2Sa 13:30 WYHY HMH BDRK WH$MW(H B)H )L DWYD L)MWR HKH )B$LWM )T KL BNY HMLK WL) NWTR MHM )XD


    2Sa 13:31 WYQWM HMLK WYQR( )T BGDYW WY$KB )RCH WKL (BDYW NCBYM QR(Y BGDYW


    2Sa 13:32 WY(N YHWNTN BN $M(YH )XY DWYD WY)MR )L Y)MR )DNY HN(RYM KWL BNY HMLK MTW KY )M )MNWN LBDW MT KY (L PY )B$LWM HYH MYWM (YNW )T TMR )XWTW


    2Sa 13:33 W(TH )L Y$YM )DNY HMLK DBR )L LBW L)MWR KL HN(RYM MTW KY )M )MNWN LBDW MT WYBRX


    2Sa 13:34 )B$LWM WY$) HN(R HCWPH )T (YNYW WYR) WHNH (M RB HWLK BDRK )XRYW MCD HHR BMWRD


    2Sa 13:35 WY)MR YHWNTN )L HMLK HNH BNY HMLK B)W KDBR (BDK KN HYH


    2Sa 13:36 WYHY KKLWTW LDBR WHNH BNY HMLK B)W WY$)W QWLM WYBKW WGM HMLK WKL (BDYW BKW BKY GDWL M)D


    2Sa 13:37 W)B$LWM BRX WYLK )L TLMY BN (MYXWR MLK G$WR B)RC XYLM WYT)BL HMLK (L BNYW KWL HYMYM


    2Sa 13:38 W)B$LWM BRX WYLK G$WR WYHY $M $LW$ $NYM


    2Sa 13:39 WTKL RWX HMLK LC)T )L )B$LWM KY HTNXXM )L )MNWN BNW HMT


    2Sa 14:1 WYD( YW)B BN CRWYH KYLB HMLK (L )B$LWM


    2Sa 14:2 WY$LX YW)B TQW(H WYQX M$M )$H XKMH WY)MR )LYH HT)BLY N) WLB$Y N) BGDY )BL W)L TSWKY $MN WHYYT K)$H ZH YMYM RBYM MT)BLT (L MT


    2Sa 14:3 WB)T )L HMLK WDBRT )LYW KKH WY$YM YW)B )T HDBRYM
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by bkMitchell; 10-28-2010 at 12:16 AM.
    Brian K. Mitchell
    חפשו בתורה היטב ואל תסתמכו על דברי
    http://www.adfontes.mitchellbk.com/


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