I Thank God for Col. R.B. Thieme Jr.

[Dan Phillips]

No idea what your blanks mean. Not even dead-sure what the last few comments mean.

But it seems to me that a ministry marked by producing arrogant acolytes cut off from all Biblical Christians of all ages by idiosyncratic terminology, harmful doctrines, and the deadly notion that you can sit at home listening to a tape and call that "church," is hardly a ministry to rejoice over.

[SCSaunders]

No idea what your blanks mean. Not even dead-sure what the last few comments mean.

But it seems to me that a ministry marked by producing arrogant acolytes cut off from all Biblical Christians of all ages by idiosyncratic terminology, harmful doctrines, and the deadly notion that you can sit at home listening to a tape and call that "church," is hardly a ministry to rejoice over.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Does Polly want a cracker?

You honestly think that all these years later those parroted cliches apply to every single taper. For someone whose forte is intelligence, and you've demonstrated that yours is, I fully concede that; but, it escapes me how it has escaped you.

As for the last few comments, get a fuller life. Leave the cloistered halls once in a while. Thank you for all the work that you do while there (I'm looking forward to your Proverbs project - I recollect you mentioning working on one, one that you had citation price concerns about); but for your own sake, spend some time elsewhere too.

Maybe that elsewhere can be meeting up with me. Will I fit your Thieme paradigm? (I don't completely care, my Christian love for him is not based on your acceptance.) I'll let you vent. I can take it. You'll say nothing I haven't heard ad nauseum. Then when the gales cease, however much spittle was whipped up, I'll squeegee my face and then maybe we can move to something more copacetic, more loving. Certainly bigger miracles have happened.

Realistically, I know this will more than likely never happen, but maybe it will. I can always hope.

Dan, you are a brother and I love you. Colonel Thieme is also my brother and I love him. I look forward to seeing him in heaven. I will thank him. I look forward to seeing you, much sooner - that is my hope. I will thank you too.

Go listen to Trace Atkins "Arlington".....


and "'Till The Last Shot's Fired".......


Both are moving. Both honor the military, to include veterans such as the Colonel proudly was.

[Stephanos]

And since I applied that statement, I must clarify and say that neither did I ever consider your statements harsh. I used the terminology simply as a reference in comparison with my own statements, which I also did not consider harsh, because they were far from being so.

To be clear, your statements and my statements were simply the relation of our experiences.



Ditto. I also related my experience, and like you, nor do I share that same sentiment. In fact, now that I've had time to think about it, I remember that in addition to listening to at least a tape or two, I had also read some material by Thieme, which I also found problematic.

And as I said, it only took the one time for me seeing him personally to convince me I was in the presence of a heretic. And I don't make that charge lightly.

Either way, as I said before, Thieme's denial of the blood of Jesus Christ is sheer blasphemy, and I don't really care whether that's considered harsh or not.

Col. Thieme denied that Christ's physical blood was efficacious for our spiritual regeneration. Colonel Thieme did not deny that Christ bled on the cross or during His suffering prior to His crucifixion, but taught emphatically that it is Christ's spiritual death that secured our salvation. His physical death and subsequent resurrection insures our ultimate sanctification at the resurrection of the Church. This is very sound doctrine. References to the Blood of Christ in Hebrews and elsewhere help to clarify that Christ's death on the cross for the sins of the world fulfilled O.T. sacrifices, and clarified that He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is the Lamb of God prophesied in the Old Testament.

[Stephanos]

Your explanation reads like the teaching of a guy who bought the lexicon but forgot the grammar. For example, "by His knowledge" does not have to be the act of justification (i.e., saved by knowledge), but the ground upon which the Servant performs His act of justification (He knows, therefore He sheds His blood on the cross).

The Genesis 2:7 thing is taken out of context: "breath of lives"..."living soul." Adam didn't have multiple lives; the breath allowed (and allows) multiple lives to come forth through reproduction; he was only one living soul. "Plural deaths" in Genesis 2:17 ("muth-tamoth") is listed as singular in BW.

The same ideas hold in 53:8-9--"land of the lives," as you would translate it, does not refer to multiple lives in each person, but to the aggregate of individual lives in the land; and, again, verse nine's "bemotayw" is singular in BW.

If I've got any facts backwards, somebody let me know. However, this whole thing smells like week-old tuna.

If Christ's physical blood atoned us, we would not have to die physically, for he would have made us immortal in so doing. He died spiritually for all sin, for all sin begins in the mentality. His physical death secured our "ultimate sanctification"- a resurrection body for every believer, through His resurrection.(Romans 6:5) He then dismissed His spirit when the work of salvation was done- He didn't bleed to death and no man took His life. He gave it up freely on His own initiative (John 10:18)

"breath of lives"- Man was created trichotomous- soul, spirit, and body . After the fall, man is no longer born in the image of God (body, soul, human spirit) but in the image of Adam (dichotomous- soul & body). Each person is born spiritually dead at physical birth.
Man's human spirit is regenerated at the moment of faith in Christ - he once again possesses the "lives"- spiritual and physical life.

[jimofbentley]

I must admit that I have never listened to one of R.B.Thieme's sermons or read one of his books.

My only connection to him is through my wife's Uncle Jack.

Judging by the account of every member of the family, Uncle Jack was a humble, loving man until he started listening to Thieme.

He ordered Theime tapes. He listened to them constantly. He sought to push them on to his relatives. He suggested that all churches should shut down and everyone should listen to Thieme instead. And, as the story goes, humble and loving Uncle Jack turned into an obnoxious, self-righteous, arrogant man.

This, of course, was not the fault of Thieme, but solely the responsibility of Uncle Jack.

I can only recall meeting Uncle Jack once, and this during the early days as pastor of my first church. Uncle Jack mentioned something (which I cannot recall now) that Thieme was teaching.

To be polite I said, "that sounds interesting, I'll read up more on that when I get home".

Uncle Jack growled at me, "what do you have to read up on it for? Thieme already has it all sorted out"!

You will not hear a good word about Thieme from my wife's family. But this has little to do with his teaching, but solely with the change that came over Uncle Jack as he listened to his teaching.

But, as I said, this was the reponsibility of Uncle Jack, not of Thieme.

[Genez]

I must admit that I have never listened to one of R.B.Thieme's sermons or read one of his books.

My only connection to him is through my wife's Uncle Jack.

Judging by the account of every member of the family, Uncle Jack was a humble, loving man until he started listening to Thieme.

He ordered Theime tapes. He listened to them constantly. He sought to push them on to his relatives. He suggested that all churches should shut down and everyone should listen to Thieme instead. And, as the story goes, humble and loving Uncle Jack turned into an obnoxious, self-righteous, arrogant man.

That can easily happen to some. To them its like finding a buried treasure chest in a field, and nobody wants to go back with him to see it. So, he over reacts. All the while, seeing others living on pennies a day and accepting it as normal.

That may not sound complimentary, but its what can easily become the perception of the newly baptized into the teachings. They can cause such a reaction. I find Thieme is only for those who are very serious in studying the Word of God. God raised him up for such a person. The casual Christian will often time find Thieme offensive if given enough exposure.

Uncle Jack needs to grow up and listen to some lessons on "people testing." Also, lessons on "impersonal love." If he ever masters the truths contained in these lessons I am sure Uncle Jack will balance out.

If you show Uncle Jack this post I believe he will connect with what I just wrote...


Grace and peace, GeneZ

[bkMitchell]

The only thing I know about Thieme Jr. is that He helped Mr. SCSaunders(and his family) who started this thread therefore,
Whither I agree with or disagree with Theime's doctrine is irreverent.


I think we can all understand SCSaunders' was expressing his feelings of loss and gratitude.
Sure, we may not personal have those feelings but we who post here could at least be sensitive to SCSaunders who was probably was seeking some form of closure and in need of comfort at the time he started this thread.

"This is the Thread that never ends,
Yes, it goes on and on my friend,
Some people started posting here not caring what it was
But they'll continue posting here forever just because...(Repeat)"
Sing to the tune of Lamb Chop's Play-Along, This is the Song that Never ends

[Genez]

Brian K. Mitchell
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
http://www.mitchellbk.com/backtothesources/

I, having been born a Jew, found Thieme's teaching from the Hebrew texts to be fascinating. While in Bible college a retired Harvard professor who taught ancient languages at the school recommended Thieme to me. I was also told by a black pastor from the ministry, that Berachah church on certain nights could have resembled a synagogue. Apparently, other Jews besides myself found his teachings to be of the highest order. Even my Jewish parents who at one time mocked my Christian faith had a change of attitude after hearing messages by R.B. Thieme. To me it was like seminary training at times coming straight from the pulpit. He is worth checking out. He's not for everybody, but with the sound of some of the critics he has, some folks would not know Thieme is worth checking out.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

[bkMitchell]

Grace and peace

Genez,

בן זומא אומר, איזה הוא חכם הלמד מכל אדם, שנאמר מכל מלמדי, השכלתי

"Ben Zoma says: Who is is wise? One who learns from every one, as it is said: From all my teachers have I gained understanding."

[ISalzman]

Ah ben Zoma. A source of many good and wise sayings. Thanks Brian. One too many yods at the end of melameday though.

Irving