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Thread: Critical Apparatuses, Etc.

  1. #21
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    Well I'll add another two cents and state that the GBS will become irrevelant and obsolete if they don't open out their dwindling resources relative to manuscripts, as the digitizing process is already galloping very fast in various venues.

    It has been my experience that the GBS has not been truthful or forthcoming when attempting to get information from them, as well as extremely biased and dishonest in their dissemination of data, and as I said, unless they change in some very major ways, their text critical position will only diminish further and further.

    In fact, they are already pretty much obsolete except for the remaing few who continue to buy into their extraordinary and ignorant bias.
    Last edited by Adelphos; 08-12-2009 at 08:21 PM.

  2. #22
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    By the way, Clint. You did a phenomenal job on the Tischendorf apparatus, so I'm really look forward to your Von Soden project.

    I assume you are also doing this for BibleWorks? I sure hope so.

  3. #23
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    It will be in BibleWorks format and be integrated with the Tischendorf Apparatus.

  4. #24
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    Very outstanding.

    You'll have that finished in the next two or three days, I expect? ...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wie View Post
    PS: The online textual commentary is free. A BW version exists somewhere.
    Hi ISalzman,

    for BibleWorks you can find these:
    1. TCG 2007 Textual Commentary on the Gospels (by Wieland Willker) - compiled in BibleWorks by Pasquale Amicarelli
    2. two BW modules shared on LaParola.net (at the bot of the page) http://www.laparola.net/greco/bibleworks.php compiled in BibleWorks by Pasquale Amicarelli
    Last edited by pasquale; 08-13-2009 at 08:22 AM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasquale View Post
    Hi ISalzman,

    for BibleWorks you can find these:
    1. TCG 2007 Textual Commentary on the Gospels (by Wieland Willker) - compiled in BibleWorks by Pasquale Amicarelli
    2. two BW modules shared on LaParola.net (at the bot of the page) http://www.laparola.net/greco/bibleworks.php compiled in BibleWorks by Pasquale Amicarelli
    Thank you, Pasquale.

  7. #27
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    This is not a BibleWorks question, per se, but has everything to do with the current thread. I just want to understand the difference, if any, between NA27 and UBS4. This is what I currently understand of this issue, rightly or wrongly. My understanding is that the text is almost exactly identical if not actually identical. They both provide the same eclectic text. The difference as I understand it is that the respective apparati are different. Apparently the NA27 apparatus is more exhaustive? Can someone please clarify this for me. My only request is that any responses be charitable and devoid of "eclectic text bashing" particularly if you are coming from a Majority text position. My creed in life is "In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." Also, if the German Bible Society holds the licensing rights to the critical apparatus of NA27, who holds the same for UBS4? Grateful for any replies.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISalzman View Post
    This is not a BibleWorks question, per se, but has everything to do with the current thread. I just want to understand the difference, if any, between NA27 and UBS4.
    Same committee, same text. Only slight difference in punctuation in a very few places, if I remember correctly. The apparatus of UBS4 is less extensive than NA27.

    That should not be construed to mean that NA27 is extensive, because it is not even remotely close to being so. And as I've stated before, and as has been demonstrated by myself and numerous others, NA27 is infested with errors.

    And with regard to charity, I'm like Jesus: I call a liar a liar and saint a saint. John 8:55.
    Last edited by Adelphos; 08-14-2009 at 11:24 PM.

  9. #29
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    I should add - if you really want to get an idea about the manuscript and variant readings, the Tischendorf Apparatus that comes with BibleWorks is FAR more valuable than NA27. True, it's missing the papyrii, but their significance has been heavily overblown anyway.

    The Tischendorf Apparatus also has errors -- and I'm not talking about typos -- but it is far more reliable and far more extensive than anything that's been produced in the past 100 years.

    Anyone who is really interested in this matter should spend some effort in learning how to interpret the Tischendorf Apparatus in BibleWorks. A rough analogy between the NA27 apparatus and the Tischendorf Apparatus would be comparable to the difference between a mud puddle and a lake with respect to coverage.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ISalzman View Post
    This is not a BibleWorks question, per se, but has everything to do with the current thread. I just want to understand the difference, if any, between NA27 and UBS4. This is what I currently understand of this issue, rightly or wrongly. My understanding is that the text is almost exactly identical if not actually identical. They both provide the same eclectic text. The difference as I understand it is that the respective apparati are different. Apparently the NA27 apparatus is more exhaustive? Can someone please clarify this for me. My only request is that any responses be charitable and devoid of "eclectic text bashing" particularly if you are coming from a Majority text position. My creed in life is "In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." Also, if the German Bible Society holds the licensing rights to the critical apparatus of NA27, who holds the same for UBS4? Grateful for any replies.
    I believe Adelphos is correct. At one point in time the texts were different, but now they are the same. "The Greek New Testament, 4th Revised Edition (UBS4) is designed for translators and students. It contains the same Greek text as Nestle-Aland Novum Testamentum Graece 27, differing only in some details of punctuation and paragraphing." The differences in the apparati are hard to explain briefly, but I'll try. NA27 has more textual variants noted than UBS4, but when UBS4 has a variant listed, it will usually list more witnesses and it will give a letter grade as to the committee's belief on the strength of what the text has written. So really the two apparati have different strengths and weaknesses and are not the same. Both are held by German Bible Society. A gander at the UBS4 says that the first few editions were copyright United Bible Society, but from 1993 on, they seem to indicate German Bible Society.
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
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