Critical Apparatuses, Etc.

[ISalzman]

Does anyone know where one could obtain the critical apparatuses of BHS, NA27, UBS4, etc. along with the Masorah Parva, etc. within a bible software package? It would preferably have the capability to decipher many of the symbols simply by hovering one's mouse over them. If I am correct, I don't believe BW currently has this or something like it available. I think Libronix sells an add-on module called SESB (Stuttgart Electronic Study Bible), however, it comes with an exorbitant $300 + price tag. I am looking for something much more affordable. I think the SESB probably comes with a lot of other databases and bells and whistles, which I'm not sure I would use, at least for a while. So, I'd be grateful if anyone can tell me what my options are for getting my hands on the critical apparatuses in electronic format.

Hey, I just noticed this was my 100th post in the BibleWorks forums. I was kind of expecting fireworks or a drum roll to break out. Do the BW folks send out ribbons when you hit milestone posts like this?

[Michael Hanel]

The textual critical apparati for the BHS and NA27 are both licensed by the German Bible Society. It has been their current practice to only sell that product as extra cost modules either for Accordance or Libronix. BibleWorks has attempted to get the material for BibleWorks but has been unable to secure a license on terms they deem reasonable.

There are other textual criticism tools being created, but if you must have the German Bible society stuff, right now you only have those two, expensive, options.

And congrats on the participation levels, you'll catch up to me soon!

[ISalzman]

The textual critical apparati for the BHS and NA27 are both licensed by the German Bible Society. It has been their current practice to only sell that product as extra cost modules either for Accordance or Libronix. BibleWorks has attempted to get the material for BibleWorks but has been unable to secure a license on terms they deem reasonable.

There are other textual criticism tools being created, but if you must have the German Bible society stuff, right now you only have those two, expensive, options.

And congrats on the participation levels, you'll catch up to me soon!

Thanks Michael! Not to put extra work on your plate, but if I may ask, what sort of textual criticism tools are being created apart from the German Bible Society stuff? And are they anywhere near as exhaustive as the information provided in the critical apparati of BHS and NA27? And, do you know if Libronix will allow one to purchase just the apparati instead of having to shell out all the bucks for the complete SESB module? Grateful for any responses you may have.

And thanks for your good wishes. I'm not so sure I'll surpass your significant number of posts any day soon. But, at least, I've gone from "Member" to "Senior Member!" I can only hope this won't mean I can expect more "senior Moments" from here on in!

[Michael Hanel]

Thanks Michael! Not to put extra work on your plate, but if I may ask, what sort of textual criticism tools are being created apart from the German Bible Society stuff? And are they anywhere near as exhaustive as the information provided in the critical apparati of BHS and NA27?

Well for one BW has the Tischendorf materials. They are actually much more thorough than the NA27 apparatus as far as I know. The main benefit of the NA27 would be that it is newer so it will have new papyri finds and such. Second, is the Comfort-Barrett module which gives you access to the papyri themselves. BibleWorks staffers have mentioned occasionally on these forums that they are working on some more stuff, but they have not been spilling the beans as to exactly what their creation will look like, but considering that they had mentioned picking up CNTTS apparatus and the Reuben Swanson books I imagine that it will be something equally thorough. But obviously, those resources are not available yet, they have just been hinted at.

And, do you know if Libronix will allow one to purchase just the apparati instead of having to shell out all the bucks for the complete SESB module? Grateful for any responses you may have.

I believe the answer to that is no. Honestly, you're better off addressing such a question either on their forums or to them directly. There's no need to turn this thread into links to rival software programs

[Adelphos]

Not to start a debate, but you are missing nothing whatsoever by the absence of the Critical Apparatus of NA27. Not only is NA27 not even REMOTELY representative of the actual manuscript deployment, but it is likewise INFESTED with errors.

And Michael is correct... the Tischendorf apparatus, while also containing many errors, is far more comprehensive than NA27.

Scroll down to the footnotes at the bottom of my article HERE for a further explanation of the NA27 Critical Apparatus.

[ISalzman]

Well for one BW has the Tischendorf materials. They are actually much more thorough than the NA27 apparatus as far as I know. The main benefit of the NA27 would be that it is newer so it will have new papyri finds and such. Second, is the Comfort-Barrett module which gives you access to the papyri themselves. BibleWorks staffers have mentioned occasionally on these forums that they are working on some more stuff, but they have not been spilling the beans as to exactly what their creation will look like, but considering that they had mentioned picking up CNTTS apparatus and the Reuben Swanson books I imagine that it will be something equally thorough. But obviously, those resources are not available yet, they have just been hinted at.


Thanks Michael.




I believe the answer to that is no. Honestly, you're better off addressing such a question either on their forums or to them directly. There's no need to turn this thread into links to rival software programs

I didn't mean to turn this into a discussion of rival software programs per se. But I don't really view the two companies as rivals. I think most of us probably use both and would admit that they complement each other nicely, for the most part. I love BibleWorks for their "Text First" emphasis. But I appreciate the other's (shall I use the "L" word?) for their library offerings. And I do like the Andersen-Forbes databases. But, for the record, BW has my first loyalty. My heart goes with them.

[Adelphos]

...but considering that they had mentioned picking up CNTTS apparatus and the Reuben Swanson books I imagine that it will be something equally thorough.

The Swanson apparatus is the best of the text critical tools available, IMO, (outside of the actual manuscripts themselves) as it doesn't present an interpretation, but rather raw data.

The other apparatuses present very decided interpretations, in addition to an inaccurate and skewed presentation of the data, as Swanson and others have demonstrated.

Swanson's work allows anyone to work directly with the raw data without having to wade through each manuscript one-by-one and thereby to see for himself just what is the case.

Of course, when the reading was not entirely clear Swanson had to make determinations of what a particular reading was in a particular place, but all collators have to do that, so in that sense Swanson offers an interpreation in a few places, but unlike the other apparatuses which present only portions of the data that THEY decide is important, in addition to forcing their interpretations in other categories onto the reader, Swanson's collation simply lays it all out there for everyone to see for himself.

[ISalzman]

Not to start a debate, but you are missing nothing whatsoever by the absence of the Critical Apparatus of NA27. Not only is NA27 not even REMOTELY representative of the actual manuscript deployment, but it is likewise INFESTED with errors.

And Michael is correct... the Tischendorf apparatus, while also containing many errors, is far more comprehensive than NA27.

Scroll down to the footnotes at the bottom of my article HERE for a further explanation of the NA27 Critical Apparatus.

Thank you, Scott.

[Adelphos]

Thank you, Scott.

Vous êtes bienvenu!

And that almost exhausts my knowledge of French.

[SkipB]

During grad school, I was involved with checking the mss of the Psalms of Solomon (photos, did not get to visit them sadly) against the critical apparatus of Rahlf. I was surprised at the number of mistakes that were in the apparatus. It seemed like some of the big names who were cited as the authority for some of the listed variants were way off. So I am always a little skeptical of the alternate readings.