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Thread: I'm disappointed ...

  1. #1

    Unhappy I'm disappointed ...

    ... with the web forum.
    I tried to use it and posted several problems, but the only replies I've got (if any at all) are from other users saying "Yes, me too".
    Where is the Bibleworks stuff?
    I remember the good old times with the mailing list where there was immediate response, posting back and forth, discussing things. This was fun and helpful.
    I can understand that this web forum is a relief for M. Bushell etc., not receiving many emails anymore and no need to answer, but the user support deteriorates.
    Without response I lose interest.
    Best wishes
    Wieland
    <><
    ------------------------------------------------
    Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
    http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie
    Textcritical commentary:
    http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html

  2. #2

    Default Silence = lack of answer or interest

    Hi, Wieland,

    Sorry you're disappointed. I scanned over your posts and it looks to me like the reason you don't get much response is either people don't know the answer -- like how to calculate the mean number of words per verse in a book -- or the topic isn't one in which they are interested.

    If you really need program support, however, the forum is not the place to get it. MTan has posted a couple times asking people to email support@bibleworks.com if they need support.

  3. #3

    Default that's true, but...

    I think what Philip points out is a sound explanation of why other users aren't posting replies, but I think what Weiland is saying is that the BW Staff aren't posting and interacting as much as they seemed to on the Topica board.

    I've noticed the same thing. It does appear that they are not posting as often as they did, even when this board started up. Now, I understand that there are a thousand reasons why that might be the case, and I certainly am not complaining. They have repeatedly stated that they will post when and if they are able, but that they are under no obligation to do so. Hence the repeated requests to send support issues to the support email address.

    But I miss the interaction with the fellas, too.
    David Garrison
    Pastor for Emerging Ministries
    Southminster Presbyterian Church
    St. Louis, MO

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    839

    Default Programmer Interaction

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogfish Jones
    But I miss the interaction with the fellas, too.
    You guys (and gals) have to understand that we have only two programmers. Our main job is to continue to develop the program so you have new tools and features to make your study of Scripture more efficient, productive and enjoyable. We have a technical support staff to answer questions so that the programming staff can program. Having said that, both Michael Tan and I do monitor the new forum and interact where appropriate. And the tech support staff are under orders to notify me when forum threads need direct intervention or interaction. But even so, the forum is intended to provide a means for users to interact with one another. The formal mechanism for interacting with the BibleWorks staff is through tech support channels.

    I enjoy direct interaction with users and intend to continue to do that via the forum and direct e-mail. If you have a program issue that is critical, especially if other support channels have not given you what you need, then feel free to contact me directly. My e-mail address is not private and never will be. I will continue to have a presence in the list. It is important to me that I do so. But I can no longer read every post (as the Topical list sort of forced me to do).

    Mike

    P.S. I miss the Topical list in many ways too, but the Forum does have its own set of advantages.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MBushell
    ... We have a technical support staff to answer questions so that the programming staff can program. Having said that, both Michael Tan and I do monitor the new forum and interact where appropriate...

    Mike

    P.S. I miss the Topical list in many ways too, but the Forum does have its own set of advantages.
    I don't miss anything about Topical. The new forums are great, however, the amount of BW interaction has definitely decreased significantly since the move off Topical. I've been a little mystified as to why that is (and so, apparently, have others). There aren't any less programmers now than there then, and no less support people than there were then, and the new forums make it, if anything, easier to see what an entire thread is about and therefore whether support's help is needed. So the sudden disappearance of BW is confusing at best, disheartening at worst.

    Having to post things twice, once on the list to see if anyone else can help, second on private email, when we have to recap everything again (including, possibly, others responses), takes a considerable amount of time, enough so that I haven't bothered to followup with Support on a few issues because I either don't have time or can't get the motivation. My problem, to be sure, but it didn't used to be necessary, and I don't see what's changed to make it necessary.

    Vince

    P.S. -- By "my problem" I mean that I'm aware of the official policy (tech support through tech support channels), and therefore don't "expect" tech support from the forum. But it used to happen 90%+ of the time, whether it was "expected" or official or not.

  6. #6

    Default Suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by vr8ce

    Having to post things twice, once on the list to see if anyone else can help, second on private email, when we have to recap everything again (including, possibly, others responses), takes a considerable amount of time

    Vince
    One nice thing about the forum is that you can refer tech support directly to an ongoing discussion about an issue.

    For instance, if I wanted to direct their attention to an entire thread (say this one), I would send them an email with the following:

    Subject: "Hey Check this out when you can"

    Body: http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341

    No need to type much and no need to recap what has already been said on the forum.

    To direct their attention to a specific post, the same idea works. For example:

    Subject: "Hey Check this out when you can"

    Body: http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/sho...10&postcount=5

    This would take them directly to Vince's post.

    It is still an "extra" step, but it is very nice way to keep things organized for them.
    Joe Fleener

    jfleener@digitalexegesis.com
    Home Page: www.digitalexegesis.com
    Blog: http://emethaletheia.blogspot.com/

    Annotated Bibliography of Online Research Tools: www.digitalexegesis.com/bibliography

    User Created BibleWorks Modules: www.digitalexegesis.com/bibleworks



    Psalm 46:11
    `#r<a'(B' ~Wra' ~yIAGB; ~Wra' ~yhi_l{a/ ykinOa'-yKi W[d>W WPr>h;

  7. #7

    Default submit options?

    I too noticed that the staff doesn't seem to be as responsive to this list. Further, it took me a little time to figure out how to get in touch with support. I sometimes notice that I miss things right in front of my nose.

    Further, I do not have any argument with the staff not reading this list, this is their program and their list, and if they want to have us contact them directly with our problems - okay.

    My suggestion, would be for the staff/programmers to add an additional 'submit reply' botton that would read something like: submit message to the list and to support.

    Or, have posted on the top section of the main page a permanent link or note directing people to support: like "if you wish to send a note to tech staff click here."

    I would also like to add that this present list formate took a little getting used to but I now like it and can find my way around in it pretty well. I like the way it works and is set up.

    May God continue to grant his blessings upon BW's.

    Al

  8. #8

    Default

    Ok,

    so I have to leave this forum aside and post to the support email address? Hmm, isn't this a step backwards? But I will try it out.
    The main point is that when there is no feedback, one (at least I) will stop posting. At least something like "Yes, we know about this problem and have it on our list." would be most helpful.
    And Mike, I posted things to your email address, but did not get any answer.
    Best wishes
    Wieland
    <><
    ------------------------------------------------
    Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
    http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie
    Textcritical commentary:
    http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    344

    Default staff interaction on the forums

    Hi Wieland et al.

    I also enjoy the personal interaction afforded by this forum and I do read it almost every day, however, I only respond if a question is asked that only a staff member could answer. The purpose of the forum is to provide a venue for interaction among users. We have channels in place for interacting with staff and those channels are of higher priority. Please use support@bibleworks.com for all questions that require an answer from staff. The support staff will forward it to Mike or Michael if it is indeed something they need to be personally involved with. Sending email directly to Mike and Michael should not ever be necessary.

    There are lots of reasons why you dont want a forum dominated by BW staff members. The advice of staff is not always the best. If you want to know how BibleWorks is used in the trenches the forum is the place to go. Some of the best BibleWorks tips I've ever learned have come from users who adapted a BibleWorks tool in a way the programmers hadnt even foreseen. If you want to know how other pastors use BibleWorks in their sermon prep, you need to ask other pastors who use BibleWorks. Because the forum allows interaction from all around the globe, you can post questions 24/7 and usually get responses more quickly than you ever could from our offices. We do respond to all email as quickly as possible, but we work regular business hours and all staff live in the same time zone. If it's Friday and you really need an answer by Saturday the forums are the place to go. These are just a few of the advantages of having a forum the focuses on user interaction. We're not trying to cut off staff interaction; we're trying to stay out of the way so users can interact.

    Finally, keep in mind that one reason a question may not get a response from anyone is that it may not be clear. Try a follow-up clarification post if your question doesn't get any responses. If the question is really urgent send the posts web link also to support@bibleworks.com.

    Charlie

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    206

    Default

    Hello BW'ers!

    We want to maintain regular, direct interaction between the BW staff and users, but we also want to foster a user community where users help one another. We were hoping that over time, a number of BW experts would appear on the forums and would eventually become so numerous that the forums would actually be more responsive and helpful than the Topica list ever was. It remains to be seen whether the BW community is large and giving enough for enough experts to bubble up. We do thank all of the posters who give their generous support to fellow users in need!

    It will take time for the forums to build up their membership. However, users won't be stimulated to help one another if BW Staffers are always jumping in...

    Hope that helps.

    Michael

    P.S. I see that Joe Fleener is about to cross the 100 post mark and become a Senior Member!
    Last edited by MTan; 06-30-2004 at 10:25 AM.

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