Considering purchasing BDAG/HALOT

[Adelphos]

Or the magic of being able to speak a "dead" language?

Tsk, tsk. Neither Hebrew nor Greek is a dead langauge, but it doesn't surprise me that you think they are since you know absolutly nothing of spoken Greek or Hebrew (and yet you comment on it as if you do), and since the differences of biblical Greek and Hebrew from their modern equivalents are more minor than in the differences between modern English and Elizabethan Enslish, the benefits of speaking and comphrehending both are lost only on someone like yourself who can speak neither, and who hasn't a clue as to the benefits of being able to do so, and who is clearly oblivious to the ignorance that accrues from not being able to do so, as my brief aforementioned article demonstrated in just one case out of an endless number of cases.

You belittle beginners for not knowing how to use a lexicon, but yet you can't even get by without same. My, my.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people who can read the Hebrew Tanach and the Greek NT without having to touch a lexicon, and who can then expound in Hebrew and in Greek what they have read, and nobody with an ounce of genuine knowledge in Hebrew and Greek would accuse them of speaking a dead langauge.

[Steve Watkins]

Chris, you are a teacher of God's Word - an equipper of those who will become the undershepherds of Christ's flock. Don't just equip them in scholarship. Heed Paul's words -

Parakalw/ ou=n u`ma/j evgw. o` de,smioj evn kuri,w| avxi,wj peripath/sai th/j klh,sewj h-j evklh,qhte( meta. pa,shj tapeinofrosu,nhj kai. prau<thtoj( meta. makroqumi,aj( avneco,menoi avllh,lwn evn avga,ph|( spouda,zontej threi/n th.n e`no,thta tou/ pneu,matoj evn tw/| sunde,smw| th/j eivrh,nhj
(Ephesians 4:1-3)

Scott,

hT'a'(-~g: ALð-hw<v.Ti-!P,( AT+l.W:aiK. lysiK.â ![;T;ä-la;
(Proverbs 26:4)

It seems to me that this thread has exhausted its usefulness, that the banter is unbecoming of those whose authority is the God of the Living Word, and that, at the very least, it should be taken elsewhere.

[Eagle]

You belittle beginners for not knowing how to use a lexicon

I did no such thing. I tried to save someone hundreds of dollars that he didn't need to spend on a tool. I hope someone would advise me the same if I ever entertained the thought of buying, say, a nail gun. A hammer works fine for all the nailing I'll ever do, and the BDB would work fine for kitwalker, at least for the time being.

there are plenty of people who can read the Hebrew Tanach and the Greek NT without having to touch a lexicon, nd who can then recite in Hebrew and in Greek what they have read,

Yes, those people are speakers of modern Hebrew and Greek who also have extensive training in biblical languages and interpretation. If, on the other hand, you mean that any native speaker of modern Hebrew and Greek can do that, you are manifestly wrong. They can't even sound out the words properly, and in the case of many OT passages, they certainly can't explain what they mean. The NT is, as I have said, much easier going. And since your experience is confined to it, it doesn't surprise me that you think this way.

The rest of your post is drivel, unworthy of a reply. You have no basis from which to criticize me.

Chris

[Eagle]

Chris, you are a teacher of God's Word - an equipper of those who will become the undershepherds of Christ's flock. Don't just equip them in scholarship.

Part of the shepherd's job is to protect the flock from the wolves (John 10:12). Twice now I have found this board to be a haunt of some pretty foul denizens (Rev 18:2). I think I would be doing the rest a favor if I stuck around and shook things up a little more. This place could use a little diversity in and among the "King Jimmy" crowd.

Chris

[Steve Watkins]

Part of the shepherd's job is to protect the flock from the wolves (John 10:12). Twice now I have found this board to be a haunt of some pretty foul denizens (Rev 18:2). I think I would be doing the rest a favor if I stuck around and shook things up a little more. This place could use a little diversity in and among the "King Jimmy" crowd.

Chris

Protecting against wolves is one matter. Becoming emotionally (pridefully) invested and turning the forum into a venue for personal defamation is another. Things have taken a step beyond merely confronting wrong ideas, and godly humility is clearly running thin.

[Adelphos]

If, on the other hand, you mean that any native speaker of modern Hebrew and Greek can do that, you are manifestly wrong. They can't even sound out the words properly, and in the case of many OT passages, they certainly can't explain what they mean. The NT is, as I have said, much easier going. And since your experience is confined to it, it doesn't surprise me that you think this way.

Wow? Your elitism and lack of knowledge on these matters is astounding.

In fact, my native Greek friends can "sound out the words" perfectly, and as has been shown, modern pronunciation is virtually identical to Koine/Biblical pronunciation, and furthermore, they can very easily explain what they mean, especially if they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Conversely, it is anglo-Greek scholars who can't even pronounce Greek properly, let alone speak it, that have no clue as to the real force and definitions of numerous words and clauses.

Nor is my experience confined to the NT. I learned Hebrew long before I learned Greek, so once again, you demonstrate just how uninformed you are on all these matters.

The fact that you don't understand even the basic premises of this matter is enough for me. You can have the last world.

[Eagle]

Protecting against wolves is one matter. Becoming emotionally (pridefully) invested and turning the forum into a venue for personal defamation is another. Things have taken a step beyond merely confronting wrong ideas, and godly humility is clearly running thin.

The appeal to humility can be simply a means of silencing. They said the same thing to or about Jesus and the Israelite prophets: that they lacked humility. Not saying one of us is analogous to Jesus and the prophets. I am saying that people who call for humility are not always on the right side.

And hey, thanks for calling me a fool in your earlier post! Noted!

Chris

[Eagle]

they can very easily explain what they mean, especially if they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Ah, I get it now. Thanks.

Eagle out.

[jakemccarty]

[quote=Adelphos;11254]Tsk, tsk. Neither Hebrew nor Greek is a dead langauge, but it doesn't surprise me that you think they are since you know absolutly nothing of spoken Greek or Hebrew (and yet you comment on it as if you do), and since the differences of biblical Greek and Hebrew from their modern equivalents are more minor than in the differences between modern English and Elizabethan Enslish, the benefits of speaking and comphrehending both are lost only on someone like yourself who can speak neither, and who hasn't a clue as to the benefits of being able to do so, and who is clearly oblivious to the ignorance that accrues from not being able to do so, as my brief aforementioned article demonstrated in just one case out of an endless number of cases.

You belittle beginners for not knowing how to use a lexicon, but yet you can't even get by without same. My, my.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people who can read the Hebrew Tanach and the Greek NT without having to touch a lexicon, and who can then expound in Hebrew and in Greek what they have read, and nobody with an ounce of genuine knowledge in Hebrew and Greek would accuse them of speaking a dead langauge.[/quote

You do know that Masoretic Hebrew is much different from Classical Hebrew, right? And you do know that there are significant differences between CBH and LBH, right?

I've taken Modern Hebrew and to some degree it is helpful--but I think your expectations are quite low when it comes to reading Hebrew. Without knowledge of the comparative Semitic languages, your understanding of the Hebrew found in the Bible will be limited. After all, did Ezekiel see electricity? No!

Adelphos, I'm impressed by your tenacity and I'm glad that you have such a thourough knowledge of all these classical and modern languages. It has taken me years of very hard and completely dedicated work just to get basic knowledge in just some of the many fields you've mastered. You are obviously without equal in the scholarly world and I think that you ought to apply for the next Hancock Chair.

[Eagle]

I've taken Modern Hebrew and to some degree it is helpful--but I think your expectations are quite low when it comes to reading Hebrew. Without knowledge of the comparative Semitic languages, your understanding of the Hebrew found in the Bible will be limited. After all, did Ezekiel see electricity? No!

Adelphos, I'm impressed by your tenacity and I'm glad that you have such a thourough knowledge of all these classical and modern languages. It has taken me years of very hard and completely dedicated work just to get basic knowledge in just some of the many fields you've mastered. You are obviously without equal in the scholarly world and I think that you ought to apply for the next Hancock Chair.

Jake McCarty, you don't know how happy I am to see you. And if I spot your name tag in San Diego, I'm buying you a beer.

Chris