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Thread: Critical Apparatus?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    188

    Default Critical Apparatus?

    Hi all
    I was hoping that BW 7 would feature the full Nestle Aland critical apparatus (like one of its competitors). Am I right that it is not?

    Why is that? For schorlarly purposes it is badly needed!

    Morten

  2. #2

    Default No - German Bible Society, but yes - CNTTS

    Quote Originally Posted by MortenJensen
    Hi all
    I was hoping that BW 7 would feature the full Nestle Aland critical apparatus (like one of its competitors). Am I right that it is not?

    Why is that? For schorlarly purposes it is badly needed!

    Morten
    Contact the German Bible Society with that question?

    The NA27 apparatus is under copyright by GBS. It seems that initially that had some kind of exclusive contract w/ the competitor you mention.

    Recently Accordance announced they are making it available. However, the licensing fee (from what I understand) is ridiculous.

    [Actually, from what I hear GBS has something like doubled the licensing fee for all their databases! Which is incredible considering the data has not changed.]

    BibleWorks will offer:

    CNTTS Critical Apparatus
    Covering the New Testament with 50 or more witnesses for the text. Includes free updates as new portions are published. Available first quarter of 2006.

    See more here: http://www.nobts.edu/CNTTS/CurrentProjects.html
    Joe Fleener

    jfleener@digitalexegesis.com
    Home Page: www.digitalexegesis.com
    Blog: http://emethaletheia.blogspot.com/

    Annotated Bibliography of Online Research Tools: www.digitalexegesis.com/bibliography

    User Created BibleWorks Modules: www.digitalexegesis.com/bibleworks



    Psalm 46:11
    `#r<a'(B' ~Wra' ~yIAGB; ~Wra' ~yhi_l{a/ ykinOa'-yKi W[d>W WPr>h;

  3. #3

    Default

    Licensing issues, pure and simple.
    Ben

  4. #4
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    Aug 2004
    Posts
    188

    Default

    Sounds really interesting with CNTTS.
    Will it be a born part of BW 7 or a licenced add-on?
    Also, in short, how will it work compared to the critical apparatus?
    Morten

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,097

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Fleener

    BibleWorks will offer:

    CNTTS Critical Apparatus
    Covering the New Testament with 50 or more witnesses for the text. Includes free updates as new portions are published. Available first quarter of 2006.

    See more here: http://www.nobts.edu/CNTTS/CurrentProjects.html
    Also consider the Swanson series that BW is offering for an amazing price as an add-on. As anyone knows, not even the NA critical apparatus is the end-all-be-all. And since the German Bible Society has had a problem apparently with sharing this scholarship, it's an awesome deal that BW has worked out arrangements for these other resources, not to mention the Tiscendorf critical material which comes standard in the box.
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
    LibraryThing!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    839

    Default GBS Critical Apparatus

    Hi Morten and others,

    The GBS apparatus is a touchy and difficult issue. I'll tell you what I can and just ask you to pray for a better resolution than we have been able to achieve.

    A couple of years ago the GBS published the apparatus exclusively in Logos format, in spite of pleas from numerous sources that they make the information available more widely. They told us that their decision was firm. So we embarked on a program to try to marshal other resources in order to meet the needs of our users. Some of those are in this release or will be ready for release in very short order. We beleve that, although not a replacement for the GBS apparatus, what we have announced and some things that we have not announced, will provide a set of resources that are in many ways (though not all of course) better than the GBS apparatus. Tischendorf (greatly improved in this release), the CNTTS database (which will grow over time), the fantastic Swanson volumes, Comfort and Barett, and some other things that I cannot mention, together provide quite an impressive collection. Don't sell them short. And due to the generosity of Dr.Swanson and his colleagues we are bringing the Swanson materials to you at a really incredible price. And the GBS did in fact permit us to provide the Metzger commentary to our users (for which we are thankful).

    Back to the GBS. At SBL this year we were approached by the GBS and told that there had been a change in policy with regard to the apparatus. They offered to permit us to develop a GBS module containing their various original language texts and apparati. That sounded great and we were initially very excited. However, they wanted us to develop the module and basically turn it over to them to package and sell as a GBS product. They were not willing to license the material to us. We would not even be permitted to distribute it on our CDs or provide support to our users. That and the fact that their financial requirements were, in our view, unreasonable, made an agreement impossible. We made the decision that agreeing to terms which were required, was not in the best long term interests of our users. We would be more than happy to incorporate the GBS apparati into our product, at reasonable royalty rates, but this is something they have chosen not to permit. The bottom line is that we are committed to meeting the needs of our users in this area, but until there are policy changes at GBS, the materials will come from some other place than Germany. Please continue to pray that the GBS will change its mind and pray for us as we seek others sources for this kind of material.

    God bless,
    Mike

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    188

    Default

    Dear Mike

    Thanks for your clarifying answar. Yes, I really see the problem now, and I guess there is not more you can do about it now.

    The three add-ons are also of great value, CNTTS, Swanson, Comfort & Barret.

    I am a little worried about the cost for all these add-ons. These three are 175 $ together. I guess there is also not much to do about that either, but have you considered to pack them together at a reduced price?

    Thanks
    Morten

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,097

    Default It costs a lot, but prices a pretty fair overall

    Quote Originally Posted by MortenJensen
    Dear Mike

    Thanks for your clarifying answar. Yes, I really see the problem now, and I guess there is not more you can do about it now.

    The three add-ons are also of great value, CNTTS, Swanson, Comfort & Barret.

    I am a little worried about the cost for all these add-ons. These three are 175 $ together. I guess there is also not much to do about that either, but have you considered to pack them together at a reduced price?

    Thanks
    Morten
    I just visited Amazon and saw that there was the Reuben Swanson 4pack for the Gospels for 89$. Now compare this to the price BibleWorks is offering which is half that and BibleWorks is including all future copies for no further price. I know this stuff adds up, but it costs BibleWorks money to pay for licensing and software companies can't always get the best prices on that stuff, but I am sure they are passing on the best price they can. The truth of the matter is these resources are not cheap and they are specialized. Not every BW user needs all of this textual critical data, but to those who are into this stuff, they realize that it will be a great investment for their work.
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
    LibraryThing!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    839

    Default Cost

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hanel
    I just visited Amazon and saw that there was the Reuben Swanson 4pack for the Gospels for 89$. Now compare this to the price BibleWorks is offering which is half that and BibleWorks is including all future copies for no further price. I know this stuff adds up, but it costs BibleWorks money to pay for licensing and software companies can't always get the best prices on that stuff, but I am sure they are passing on the best price they can. The truth of the matter is these resources are not cheap and they are specialized. Not every BW user needs all of this textual critical data, but to those who are into this stuff, they realize that it will be a great investment for their work.
    These prices are set by the copyright holders. You have to keep in mind that neither CNTTS nor Swanson are completely finished. They have to receive a decent return to continue the work and that is not easy on specialty items like this. Most people who buy BibleWorks don't use (and really don't need) the critical apparati. All things considered, these are fair prices. Maybe after the work is completed prices can drop. We do everything we can to lower prices.

    Mike

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MortenJensen
    Dear Mike

    Thanks for your clarifying answar. Yes, I really see the problem now, and I guess there is not more you can do about it now.

    The three add-ons are also of great value, CNTTS, Swanson, Comfort & Barret.

    I am a little worried about the cost for all these add-ons. These three are 175 $ together. I guess there is also not much to do about that either, but have you considered to pack them together at a reduced price?

    Thanks
    Morten
    Oops. I posted my answer to the wrong person. See my previous post.

    Mike

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