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Thread: Paragraphs?

  1. #31

    Default

    As a stopgap we will add the same paragraph markers to all versions, based on the markers in the RSV. This is not quite ideal in that it doesn't give you the editorial decisions made by each publisher but perhaps it will be a useful stopgap. The RSV is a good one because it has the Apocrypha and is pretty aggressive in marking paragraphs.
    I think it is a mistake to take punctuation and paragraphing from one English translation and apply it to another. Every Bible translation into English is an attempt to translate the meaning of a text in Hebrew, Aramaic or Koiné Greek into English. Punctuation and paragraphing are part of that attempt, for the original manuscripts often lack any form of punctuation and paragraphing. Indeed, the earliest Greek uncials usually have no punctuation; and words just run into each other with no spaces even between the words. Punctuation and paragraphing can change the meaning of a translation. For example, consider the sentence, “I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise”. Compare that with, “I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise”. The same applies to paragraphing. In Ephesians 5:21 the author says, “Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ – wives to your husbands as to the Lord”. The absence of the verb from the second half of the sentence shows that it must be supplied from the first half, inextricably linking the first and second halves of the sentence. Plausibly, the subjection of wives to husbands is thus a particular case of a general submission of all Christians to each other. Now a new paragraph implies new subject matter. Separate the first and second halves of the same sentence by creating separate paragraphs of them and you have effectively changed the meaning of the words. Fair enough! That may well be the judgment of the translators. However, that judgment is expressed in the paragraphing. Take paragraphing from one translation and apply it to another and you have changed the nature of the translation. Of course, supplying the text of one’s translation without paragraphing is equally unacceptable.

  2. #32

    Default MS Word find text / paragraph breaks

    Here's one method to mess with passages pasted into word that contain paragraph breaks. This method requires two Find and Replace steps.

    First:
    Open Find/Replace dialog
    Click Use wildcards option
    Click Ignore white-space characters option
    For Find: [0-9]*¶
    For Replace with: ^p^t^&

    Second:
    Open Find/Replace
    No special options needed
    For Find: ¶
    For Replace: (leave empty)

    That should do the formatting. I did this with Office 2007 but I assume these options are present with older versions.

    My $.02 about the paragraph markings, I'm glad they're there and I'm glad I can turn them off. I'd like an easier way to toggle them on/off. When working with the text I'm not likely to want them, but when copying text to Word I'd like a quick way to toggle them on. It will be nice to see paragraph markings for the specific version, but using RSV markings in the meantime is nice and helpful (contra Greg )
    M.Div Candidate, Beeson Divinity School
    http://www.musterion.net/

  3. #33

    Default

    One more quick note about Word, if you like a blank line between your paragraphs (which I usually prefer) then your Replace with string should be: ^p^p^t^&
    M.Div Candidate, Beeson Divinity School
    http://www.musterion.net/

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,090

    Default Better fix, but still a couple of issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Columcille View Post
    Here's one method to mess with passages pasted into word that contain paragraph breaks. This method requires two Find and Replace steps.

    First:
    Open Find/Replace dialog
    Click Use wildcards option
    Click Ignore white-space characters option
    For Find: [0-9]*¶
    For Replace with: ^p^t^&

    Second:
    Open Find/Replace
    No special options needed
    For Find: ¶
    For Replace: (leave empty)

    That should do the formatting. I did this with Office 2007 but I assume these options are present with older versions.
    Thanks for the smarter macro option. What does the "^&" stand for? I'm running Office 2003 and there is no option that I see for "Ignore white-space characters." I copied Gen 1:1-30 and ran this and it did catch some of the paragraphs, but not others...

    e.g. ¶ In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. 6 ¶ And God said, "Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
    7 And God made the firmament and separated the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament. And it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. 9 ¶ And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
    LibraryThing!

  5. #35

    Default

    ^& tells it to copy back anything that the Find matched. This is what has it re-include the verse number and the paragraph mark - after it adds in the paragraph break.

    Yours doesn't match because of the whitespace issue. I'll play with the find/replace some more so that it will match with whitespace, but since Word 2003 doesn't have ignore whitespace, I'm not sure if ^& is something Word 2003 will recognize...
    M.Div Candidate, Beeson Divinity School
    http://www.musterion.net/

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,090

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Columcille View Post
    ^& tells it to copy back anything that the Find matched. This is what has it re-include the verse number and the paragraph mark - after it adds in the paragraph break.

    Yours doesn't match because of the whitespace issue. I'll play with the find/replace some more so that it will match with whitespace, but since Word 2003 doesn't have ignore whitespace, I'm not sure if ^& is something Word 2003 will recognize...

    Word 2003 does support ^&, and I found the white space option is called ^w, so where does the ^w go in the expression?
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
    LibraryThing!

  7. #37

    Default

    Then Find should be something like [0-9]*^w*¶ but I just tried - and should have originally suggested - simply doing [0-9]* *¶ - note the space before the second *. This essentially ignores/allows the whitespace between the verse num and the paragraph mark.

    So:
    Find what: [0-9]* *¶
    Replace with: ^p^p^t^&
    Check Use Wildcards

    Then:
    Find what: ¶
    Replace with: (leave blank)

    That should do it... maybe.

    M.Div Candidate, Beeson Divinity School
    http://www.musterion.net/

  8. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Crawford View Post
    I think it is a mistake to take punctuation and paragraphing from one English translation and apply it to another. Every Bible translation into English is an attempt to translate the meaning of a text in Hebrew, Aramaic or Koiné Greek into English. Punctuation and paragraphing are part of that attempt, for the original manuscripts often lack any form of punctuation and paragraphing. Indeed, the earliest Greek uncials usually have no punctuation;...
    This may apply to the NT, but the paragraph markings (but not chapter/verse divisions) in the Hebrew Bible go back to Pre-NT days, at least in my recollection. Marc Brettler discusses it (with references) in his How to Read the Bible.
    Ben

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    534

    Default Paragraphs in ancient Greek and Hebrew

    In a cursory investigation I did a long time ago, I noticed paragraph breaks in some of the Dead Sea Scrolls Biblical texts (Great Isaiah Scroll, I think), as well as in the NT of Codex Sinaiticus.

    Glenn

  10. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Spackman View Post
    This may apply to the NT, but the paragraph markings (but not chapter/verse divisions) in the Hebrew Bible go back to Pre-NT days, at least in my recollection. Marc Brettler discusses it (with references) in his How to Read the Bible.
    Paragraphing in the modern sense was indicated by “parashiyyot” in the Hebrew text – the last line was left blank after the last word of the preceding section of the Hebrew text. You can use BibleWorks7 to see this by downloading one of the manuscript resources. Take a look at Codex Aleppo (say folio 22v – Judges 2:22-23). According to Emmanuel Tov, this is more or less in agreement with proto-Masoretic texts found in Qumran. However, Tov continues, “Although the medieval manuscripts continue the tradition of the proto-Masoretic texts in Qumran in general, they often differ with regard to the indication of individual section breaks.” (Tov, E. Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible. 2nd ed.2001. Fortress Press.p.51). Obviously there is a difference amongst the Hebrew manuscripts of the proto-Masoretic and Masoretic Traditions in paragraphing in the modern sense. Furthermore, the use of perigrapha, paragrapha (from which we get the word paragraph) or antisigma, i.e. a sigma and reversed sigma from which we get the parenthesis marks, for which inverted nunim were used in the Hebrew, was meant to indicate not a paragraph in the modern sense, but a section which had been mislocated in the overall text, according to the judgment of the scribes. Paragraph markers and parentheses indicators were exegetical judgments of the scribes. My conclusion to this is that the application of paragraphing from one modern English translation to all other translations erases important information about exegetical judgments in individual manuscripts and translations.

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