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Thread: Paragraphs?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    124

    Default

    This is a great idea.

    Another idea: I recently got a Chronological Bible and one thing I really like is that they group the text in small sections based on theme/content. It breaks the text up into logical sub-chapters. I know BW already has the outline/headings, maybe this could be used to browse the chunks of text it represents?

    Also, on the Poetry: I would love a Bible that breaks up the chiastic structure of the text.

    Actually a Bible, a print one, that was totally dedicated to form would be nice. A study Bible, but text-oriented. e.g. Genesis 1 can be broken up a couple ways. First there is some basic poetry here and there. On the side of form structure you have 3 days of forming and 3 days of filling. You also have the covenant structure (Preamble, Historical Prologue, Stipulations, Blessings/Cursings, Witnesses, statement concerning the document) which Gen 1-2 seems to follow. Having this information in a text would be nice; and with the main text formatted in regards to chiastic structure or the like.

    A Bible that even just did the chiastic / poetic structure without the additional notes would be great. The parallelism of the Bible is pretty amazing--and informative--at times. A good example of Chiasmus is in Amos 9:1-4

    Code:
     
    And I saw Yahweh standing by the alter,
    And he said,
     
    A  Strike the tops of the pillars so that the thresholds shake.
       Bring them down on the heads of all the people;
     
       B  those who are left I will kill with the sword.
     
          C  Not one will get away,
             none will escape.
     
             D  Though they dig down to the depths of the grave,
                from there my hand will take them.
     
                E  Though they climb up to the heavens,
                   from there I will bring them down.
     
                E' Though they hide themselves on the top of Carmel,
                   there I will hunt them down and seize them.
     
             D' Though they hide from me at the bottom of the sea,
                there I will command the serpent to bite them.
     
          C' Though they are driven into exile by their enemies,
     
       B' there I will command the sword to slay them.
     
    A' I will fix my eyes upon them for evil and not for good."
    It may be very difficult to get something like this into BibleWorks because there are no Bibles that do this (to my knowledge... if there are let me know!). This information is usually tucked away in an academic commentary or books specializing on Biblical Poetry. Which is too bad IMO as it makes the poetry very enjoyable!

  2. #12

    Default Structure of Text

    It would be very helpful to have the text grouped like your Chronological Bible or to be able to group the text according to its chaistic structure. I suppose we could do that ourselves in the notes section of the text, but to be able to turn those things on and off, perhaps in a separate, maybe even a floating, results window would be so helpful. It could be set up by the programer according to a particular design, but with the ability to edit it like the timeline.

  3. #13

    Default This would still be nice!

    Are there any plans to do this...? I see the last post was quite some time ago. Paragraph markers would be extremely useful. It is a pain to have to open up Logos just to see where the translators put the paragraph breaks...

    I'm pretty sure Accordance does this.... (*ahem!*)

  4. #14

    Default Chiasm often subjective

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Luna View Post
    Also, on the Poetry: I would love a Bible that breaks up the chiastic structure of the text.... It may be very difficult to get something like this into BibleWorks because there are no Bibles that do this (to my knowledge... if there are let me know!). This information is usually tucked away in an academic commentary or books specializing on Biblical Poetry.
    Of course commentaries that suggest chiastic arrangements of various texts provide potentially useful help by doing so; however, chiastic arrangements are frequently very subjective construals and don't really belong in the biblical texts themselves. Unlike the case with samek and pe unit indicators, and the rabbinic poetic scansion, we don't have any Masoretic chiastic notes, for example, let alone Mosaic or Davidic notes to that effect. So I would say this structuring is best left to commentaries rather than the BW biblical texts.

    Dale A. Brueggemann

    כִּי עֶזְרָא הֵכִין לְבָבוֹ לִדְרוֹשׁ אֶת־תּוֹרַת יְהוָה וְלַעֲשֹׂת וּלְלַמֵּד בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל חֹק וּמִשְׁפָּט (Ezra 7:10)


  5. #15

    Question Paragraphs, please!

    Yes, please!

    It seems that most of the activity on this forum is from academics looking for better research tools. I suspect, however, that a majority of BW sales have been from working pastors wrestling with God's Word for teaching and preaching...

    Anyway, as a pastor, my #1 feature request from BW would be paragraphs. In fact, I haven't seen a new BW feature that's of interest to me in a long time. No offense to those who need them, but most of the effort seems to be going into seemingly more and more esoteric tools. How about something for those of use trying to preach God's word every week? Give us something to get excited about like paragraph breaks or parallel version printing or new English versions - things that we can use for preaching, teaching, and leading Bible studies. I've bought four versions of BibleWorks now, but I'm starting to wonder if new versions will offer me what I need. Many people have asked for paragraphs for multiple years/versions.

    Paragraphs would really help - I have to go to paper versions or Bible Gateway to get them right now. It just doesn't make sense to me.

    --Steve
    Steve Whitney, pastor
    Trinity Presbyterian Church

    1500 Park Blvd.
    West Sacramento, CA 95691

    church: www.TrinityWestSac.org
    blog: www.UndercoverPastor.com

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    839

    Default Paragraph Markers

    We have somewhere around 150 Bible version in BW now. In all but a few cases the text arrived from the publishers withour paragraph markers. That is changing of course as publishers get more sophisticated in dealing with electronic materials.

    As a stopgap we will add the same paragraph markers to all versions, based on the markers in the RSV. This is not quite ideal in that it doesn't give you the editorial decisions made by each publisher but perhaps it will be a useful stopgap. The RSV is a good one because it has the Apocrypha and is pretty aggressive in marking paragraphs.

    We'll go through our versions one by one and find out which ones have the info and which don't and slowly over time customize the marking process. We probably have the info from the major English versions (NAS, ESV, etc.) and will add those as soon as we can get the time.

    The interime fix will be posted later today.

    God bless,
    Mike

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    839

    Default Paragraph Markers

    Check the latest exe post. It has the fix I descrbed previously.
    Mike

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    839

    Default Paragraphs

    Now that I've played with the new paragraph markings for a while, I see a definite advantage to having one paragraph scheme across all versions. It is certainly helpful if you are working on a passage for a sermon and don't need to be distracted by variations in paragraph markings. Of course you do lose something by not having the differences between versions. I could easily make the paragraph markers toggleable. Any interest in this?
    Mike

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,095

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MBushell View Post
    Now that I've played with the new paragraph markings for a while, I see a definite advantage to having one paragraph scheme across all versions. It is certainly helpful if you are working on a passage for a sermon and don't need to be distracted by variations in paragraph markings. Of course you do lose something by not having the differences between versions. I could easily make the paragraph markers toggleable. Any interest in this?
    Mike
    If the question is should you use one paragraph scheme or let each Bible have its own, or BOTH, I would think the answer would be both :-P I haven't ever compared variations, but I would think if you're going to be able to get paragraphs in here, let each version have the paragraph marks it calls for, that's part of it's uniqueness.

    Hopefully that's the answer to the question. In regard to being able to toggle paragraph markers, I suppose that is an option. As long as they don't interfere in searching I don't mind them being there, so I don't think I would toggle them off, but some people might...
    Michael Hanel
    PhD candidate Classics Univ. of Cincinnati
    MDiv Concordia Seminary
    MA Classics Washington University
    Unofficial BibleWorks Blog
    LibraryThing!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Hanel View Post
    If the question is should you use one paragraph scheme or let each Bible have its own, or BOTH, I would think the answer would be both :-P I haven't ever compared variations, but I would think if you're going to be able to get paragraphs in here, let each version have the paragraph marks it calls for, that's part of it's uniqueness.

    Hopefully that's the answer to the question. In regard to being able to toggle paragraph markers, I suppose that is an option. As long as they don't interfere in searching I don't mind them being there, so I don't think I would toggle them off, but some people might...
    Agreed -- the different paragraph markers in NAU vs NLT is actually something I use in reading/lesson preparation, so they're the opposite of distracting for me.

    Thank you very much for the addition of the markers -- it is excellent. I don't suppose there's a way we could get at least browse view (well, whatever the view is that only shows one version at a time) to show the text in paragraph form, i.e. without starting a new verse on a new line. I suspect that's a major change, but "you do not have because you do not ask".

    Thanks again, Mike.

    Vince

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