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Gontroppo
04-06-2004, 07:04 PM
I know almost nothing about the ASE. I have never got very far in my attempts. Would anyone be willing to walk us through its use, please? It will have to be simple!

Thanks!
David McKay

Mark Langley
04-06-2004, 07:18 PM
I know almost nothing about the ASE. I have never got very far in my attempts. Would anyone be willing to walk us through its use, please? It will have to be simple!

Thanks!
David McKay
Hi David,

Have you watched that section in the BibleWorks Video Library? It is about 18 minutes long or so. It really is a good place to start along with the manual. Not trying to "put you off" but those 2 sources can be of a big help starting out.

Hope this helps.

Ben Spackman
04-06-2004, 07:22 PM
Another useful thing for learning (and saving time!) is to write part of the search in the command line, something like 'Jesus * unto them and then open the ASE. It imports the command line!

Mark Langley
04-06-2004, 07:45 PM
Another useful thing for learning (and saving time!) is to write part of the search in the command line, something like 'Jesus * unto them and then open the ASE. It imports the command line!
Excellent point Ben. As well use the command line assistant and then open the ASE. the command line assistant will "create" the query and shows you what it looks like.

Mark Langley
04-07-2004, 12:53 AM
Hi David,

There is also some pre-built queries that comes with BW. If you open the ASE and click on File | Open you will see several listed. Click on one and you can see some of the workings of a particular query.

Ruben Gomez
04-07-2004, 03:17 AM
FWIW, just wanted to add that not every search you write on the Command Line is imported accurately by the ASE. This is due to the fact that they use different search engines and different syntaxes. As for learning about the ASE, it is a very complex and powerful tool, and there is really no substitute for reading the manual. The video tutorial can help, but you definitely should make a point of reading the manual and working through the examples.

Just my two cents.

Rubén Gómez

Philip Brown
04-10-2004, 11:06 AM
This morning I was noticing the phrase kai. evge,neto in Luke -- it struck me as very LXXish, reflecting the Hebrew yhiy>w:. I limited the Command Line to luke (l luk), and then did a phrase search in the BGT: 'kai egeneto. The search brought up 29 hits in Luke. Some of them I noticed were within a verse and weren't functioning syntactically in the same way yhiy>w: does, so I wanted to see only those verses with kai egeneto as the first two words.

To do this I

1. Brought 'kai egeneto back up on the Command Line by pressing the up arrow key until it appeared.

2. Clicked on the Common Search Utilities button at the far right of the Command Line and choose Advanced Search Engine

4. I double-clicked on the kai word box

5. I checked the Position box in the Word box dialog and set the position to 1.

6. Clicked the OK button in the word box dialog.

7. Clicked the GO button on the ASE toolbar

8. Immediately got 24 verses 24 hits .07 seconds.

9. I wanted to compare these stats to the other synoptics, so I reset the limits to Mat-Luk and reran the search. Exported the results to the Detailed Stats window and found: It occurs in first position 6x in Matt, 4x in Mar, vs 24x in Luke.

Just one of the many ways the ASE can be helpful

Philip Brown
04-10-2004, 10:59 PM
I frequently use the ASE when I want to compare Hebrew and Greek.

Caveat Lector: Must be able to read both Greek and Hebrew to use this tip.

Let's say you're studying ds,x, (occurs 248x in the OT) and you are seeing eleoj in the LXX translation of the first few verses you've looked at. You'd like to know many times the LXX translates it with eleoj. If you don't have a paper tool on hand that tells you, the ASE is the way to go.

0. Make sure you have both the WTT and BGT/LXT displayed in the results window before starting. (This insures that the ASE results window will display the highlighted hits from your search in these texts)
1. On the Command Line I set the search version to WTM with Vowel point sensitive searching on.
2. Type .ds,x, and then open the ASE window from the Common Search Utilities button.
3. Click the W(ord box) button.
4. Double click on the word box that comes up
5. Set the search version to BLM or BGM
6. Type eleoj in the Word textbox. (you don't have to specify its morphological code)
7 Click OK.
8. Right click on the wordbox. Choose Connect. Connect the eleoj wordbox to the AND (WTM) merge box.
9. Click the GO button on the ASE toolbar
10. You should get 202 verses 221 hits.

At this point, all you know is that eleoj happens to occur in the same verse ds,x, does 202 times. This does NOT necessarily mean the LXX translates ds,x, with eleoj 202 times. It IS, however, likely that in the large majority of these verses eleoj is a translation of ds,x,. Hence, this search suggests that eleoj is probably the word most commonly used to translate ds,x,. To verify this inference you would need to read the Hebrew and Greek of all 202 verses to weed out any instances where eleoj was not actually translating ds,x,.

Philip Brown
04-10-2004, 11:15 PM
Hopefully discovering the fact that eleoj translates ds,x, a good number of times will stir your curiosity to wonder what other words the LXX uses to translate ds,x,.

Using the same search constructed in the previous post:
Double click on the eleoj wordbox and in the Options section, check the boxes Invert Results and Suppress Highlighting

Invert Results => the ASE will search for all verses where the WTM has ds,x, and the LXX does NOT have eleoj.
Suppress Highlighting => since every word in a verse that is not eleoj will be highlighted by this search, i.e., every word in every verse found by the search, highlighting is worthless at this point.

Click GO again -- this one will take some time (on my AMD 1800 system with 498mb RAM it took 29.74 secs). MTan has, however, provided a wonder Halt! button if you get tired of waiting. :)

The ASE should find 43 verses 853 hits (the hits information in this case is not significant).

The first verse is Gen. 20:13 where th.n dikaiosu,nhn translates ds,x,. as it does in 21:23, 24:27, and 32:11
In Gen. 47:29 the translator used evlehmosu,nhn.

And you are on your way to getting a feel for the range of Greek words the LXX uses to translate ds,x,.

For a couple NT verses where this study has ramifications, see Luke 1:72 and 10:37.

Charlie
04-12-2004, 09:29 AM
Thanks Philip, This is very helpful. For the beginners out there I've attached this last ASE query file to this message (Chesed-Eleos.qf). Just save the attachement to your hard drive and then double click it. This might help you follow Philip's excellent discussion.

Charlie