BW and Linux

[wezlo]

Let's get all BW users who are getting BW to run under Linux to pool our resources! A lot of traffic maybe we can get BW ported (the "Holy Grail" of sorts).

[balin]

Hello, everyone.

First: Wonderful forums. I think this is much nicer than the listserv you had. Now I definitely won't be posting duplicate messages :-)

Now for the Linux part...

I've posted a page describing my experience (limited though it might be) with Wine and BW6 at http://www.balinsbooks.com/bw/wine/reports.html

If you have any input, I would be happy to collect input from anyone who would like to contribute and post it on that page. (If you don't want to be identified, please let me know that and I will not include info about you specifically (e.g. email, name, etc).)

I hope this might be of use to people trying to get BibleWorks 6 and Wine working together.

Thanks,
John

[tcblack]

I've played with Linux, and I've even gotten Bibleworks to run under wine using the Knoppix (http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html)CD. Unfortunately I've got a few other programs that lock me into Micro$oft. HOWEVER, if BW ran natively in Linux ;-) I could be convinced to move permanently.

[wezlo]

Gang, just to let you know, I have tried out BW on codeweavers.com's cross-over office and it installs flawlessly. In the past cxoffice was hit or miss with BW; but anything above 2.1.1 seems to work fine; and BW with 3.0 is FAST. I'm thinking about getting it for father's day...

[united_by_truth]

I am seriously considering moving my home PC (Win 95) to Linux. If it works, I will consider moving my office PC from Win 98 as a result of the report concerning BW running well with cxoffice. My question is what distribution of Linux to consider-- Susie, Mandrake, Fedora, Xandros, ???? Should I pay the bucks and buy a boxed version? What should I definitely avoid? Any help would be appreciated. Wezlo, what distro of Linux do you use and why? Are you happy with it? Thomas, you said that you got BW to work with Knoppix. Is Knoppix a distribution that can be set up as the operating system on a computer? I got the impression it was really just for demo. What M$ applications keep you from switching? I might have the same problem. What about a dual boot for those progams and just never update Windows?

[wezlo]

I am seriously considering moving my home PC (Win 95) to Linux. If it works, I will consider moving my office PC from Win 98 as a result of the report concerning BW running well with cxoffice. My question is what distribution of Linux to consider-- Susie, Mandrake, Fedora, Xandros, ???? Should I pay the bucks and buy a boxed version? What should I definitely avoid? Any help would be appreciated. Wezlo, what distro of Linux do you use and why? Are you happy with it? Thomas, you said that you got BW to work with Knoppix. Is Knoppix a distribution that can be set up as the operating system on a computer? I got the impression it was really just for demo. What M$ applications keep you from switching? I might have the same problem. What about a dual boot for those progams and just never update Windows?

Well, I've been a Mandrake user since 7.0 and I've had my ups and downs with them. I'm running 10.0 Community right now and I really like it. If I hadn't liked it, I would have switched to Knoppix or Fedora by now. You CAN install Knoppix on to the HD, there is an ever evolving script that helps you through the process. I've got a friend who's been using Knoppix for about 2 years now, he's in love with the thing. Knoppix also has a lot of community surrounding it (www.knoppix.new) which is a real plus. It's also "free as in speach and free as in beer" which is also good (but there are places to donate money to continue development, which is a good thing to do).

I wouldn't use knoppix right off the bat though. You're better off with Xandros or Mandrake. You can still download Mandrake for free, and their package manager (urpmi) is right up there with "apt" (which is a thing of beauty). If you want to get a boxed set, I'd purchase Xandros though; it's utilities are highly rated AND last time I checked their boxed set comes with crossOver Office, which can run BW! (at least 3.0 can, which is what I'm going to purchase this week).

On the other hand, Mandrake is pretty dang good, has a better community then Xandros, and mandrakeclub is actually a pretty valuable thing (I pay $120 a year for a silver membership, I've been happy). Mandrake also runs cxoffice 3.0 just fine, which is how I'm currently running BW (flawlessly, I might add; EVERYTHING works).

[united_by_truth]

Wezlo,

Thanks for the information. A local person gave me a disk of Knoppix and I have tried it a few times. I think I like Linux if Knoppix is a good representation. What I was wondering was about running BW. I started it with Wine and it seemed to run OK. I didn't really use it long, just a few sample searches, etc. I noticed your comments about CrossOver Office (which I would probably get anyway if I make the switch to see if it will run PageMaker), and I was wondering why you thought we needed CO to run BW. Are there problems I haven't run into yet? Do you know if CO will run e-Sword or Online Bible? Are you running Linux as your primary desktop? Do you run MS Windows at all? If so, what for? I wonder why Thomas Black doesn't switch? I have heard so many people say that Linux (any distro) is not ready for the desktop. The fellow that gave the Knoppix to try runs an ISP and he says he disagrees with that. He says he only runs Windows for games. All his work is in Linux. Any thoughts? What are the pros and cons of a dual boot? Thanks for any input.

[wezlo]

Why do I use cross-over office? Well, I've tried various ways that are supposed to get BW to install cleanly on linux, with most of the features working. I've not been able to get them to work for some reason. With cxoffice it "just works." Links to perseus, the html help, the diagrammer, the auto-updater, etc... "just work" with no problems. It might be a TAD slower, but frankly, I haven't noticed. (BTW, in general I think BW fonts look better on linux than they do in XP with clear-type enabled...)

I've been using Linux as my only desktop OS for just over 2 years, and linux as my primary for over 4. I love it.

[tcblack]

I am seriously considering moving my home PC (Win 95) to Linux.
... Thomas, you said that you got BW to work with Knoppix. Is Knoppix a distribution that can be set up as the operating system on a computer? I got the impression it was really just for demo. What M$ applications keep you from switching? I might have the same problem. What about a dual boot for those progams and just never update Windows? First, I am sorry for the long delay, I've been in Haiti for almost a month.
It looks like your Knoppix question has been answered already so I won't touch it again.
Currently their are three reasons I'm not switching to Linux completely for now, and they are in no particular order.

Bibleworks. It can run on Linux, but it runs stable on XP.
Libronix. It's so heavily dependant on IE that Linux would IMHO make it wasted money.
Drivers for my Laptop. Yes I know that such can be hacked away at. But I've come to value my time far to much to spend much time hacking away.
I'm in the process of de-geeking myself so to speak. I just haven't got the time or urgency to keep wasting the time I've been given on what other people can do for me, and do better than I can. So my next computer which is 3-4 years away might be a Linux box, and my son's computer is already Linux-From-Scratch (LFS) linux box; but for right now I have a machine with XP that runs great for now.

[rlh]

Gang, just to let you know, I have tried out BW on codeweavers.com's cross-over office and it installs flawlessly. In the past cxoffice was hit or miss with BW; but anything above 2.1.1 seems to work fine; and BW with 3.0 is FAST. I'm thinking about getting it for father's day... For about a year now, I've been running BW5 under VMware Workstation 4.0 on a Pentium system with Debian (2.4 kernel). The arrangement has been serviceable, though leaving something to be desired. Before settling on VMware, I also tried Win4Lin (it did not work), TightVNC (it worked, but the response was maddeningly sluggish), and CodeWeavers CrossOver Office Pro 2.0 (it did not work).

I recently reinstalled Debian (using the new "Sarge" installer), and subsequently upgraded to "unstable" and the 2.6 kernel, whereupon I discovered that VMware would not install; kernel 2.6 is not yet supported by VMware. So I tried a demonstration download of CrossOver Office Pro 3.0, and was able to get BW5 working, without difficulty; this was about two weeks ago. For various reasons, I decided to begin the Debian installation afresh, and now I am unable even to install BW5 under CrossOver Office Pro 3.0 -- "Install Shield" appears, and then I see a window which is solid black, labeled "C:\PROG~FBU\COMM-GP\INST~JM1\Engine\6\intel 32\Kernel.exe"; and in the process, the desktop (Gnome) may lock up. If anyone has a solution or recommendation, kindly email me at rlharris@hal-pc.org.

While a BW port to Linux would be ideal, a good immediate solution would be for BW simply to conform to the WINE guidelines for Windows applications.

UPDATE (three LONG hours later) --- SUCCESS!

The problem turned out to be that DCOM98 (and perhaps also DCOM95) had not been installed. The installation menu of CodeWeavers CrossOver Office Pro 3.0 lists DCOM95 as a supported application, so I asked CX to install DCOM95, which it did. A subsequent attempt to install BW5.0 then appeared to progress normally until a dialogue box appeared:

<BibleWorks will now run a Microsoft program to see if your system has the files necessary to run HTML Help. You should answer YES if asked whether or not you want to install HTML Help.>

However, upon clicking OK to proceed, the installation appeared to hang. I utilized the FORCE QUIT applet of Gnome to regain control of the desktop, and then, on a hunch, I downloaded DCOM98.exe directly from the Micro$oft web site, and then I instructed CX to install DCOM98.exe as an unsupported application, which it did. Finally, I instructed CX to install BW5.0. This time, the installation progressed to completion. After the test regarding HTML Help, a dialogue box appeared. At the end of the installation, a dialogue box informed me that installation was complete, and requested permission to restart the (virtual) computer. BibleWorks 5.0 appears to be functioning normally, and I am elated at last to be free of the VMware environment.

I may uninstall CX and repeat the entire installation, to see whether it is necessary to install DCOM95; perhaps DCOM98 is all that is required.

RLH

[rlh]

I am seriously considering moving my home PC (Win 95) to Linux. If it works, I will consider moving my office PC from Win 98 as a result of the report concerning BW running well with cxoffice.
...
What about a dual boot for those progams and just never update Windows? Dual-boot is fine, unless the system is used to access the Internet. The trouble with a dual-boot system is that, when Window$ is running, all partitions of all drives are susceptible to attack. I now am reinstalling Linux on a former dual-boot system of a friend (a school teacher), who appears to have been attacked through the browser while filling in an employment application on the web site of a local school district, the application having been written so as to be accessible only with Internet Explorer. The attack corrupted the Linux system, which resides on a separate drive. Needless to say, my friend no longer shall be running a dual-boot system; rather, he shall be using an old spare machine for those increasingly-rare instances in which a regression to Window$ is mandatory.

Over the past decade, the Internet has been transformed from a tranquil, benign academic campus to a turbulent, dangerous ghetto. The Internet Explorer exploits of the past two weeks appear to be the beginning of the end for Internet Explorer; hopefully, also for Window$. Window$ is a monolithic system which cannot be made secure, apart from a total redesign.

[united_by_truth]

For about a year now, I've been running BW5 under VMware Workstation 4.0 on a Pentium system with Debian (2.4 kernel). The arrangement has been serviceable, though leaving something to be desired. Before settling on VMware, I also tried Win4Lin (it did not work), TightVNC (it worked, but the response was maddeningly sluggish)
RLH Thanks for the input. I am slowly working toward my goal of running Linux. I don't even have a running system yet, but I am playing with Mandrake and Knoppix trying to learn enough to start.

What is your system? I was told that VMware wouldn't run on anything less than a screamer of a processor with a minimum of 1 GB RAM. Also, I noticed on a Knoppix site that they are working on a situation(?) that will run multiple operating systems simultaneously. I don't remember much about it. Have you heard of it? I think they said it was running in the Japaneese version.

Also, do you have any comments about T. C Black's remarks about Libronix? I use them to access Galaxie's Theological Journal Library. I can't afford to lose that.

What resources would you suggest for a newbie who is learning from scratch and has no one to ask questions to. I have found several Linux sites. Any you have found particularly helpful or any books?

Thanks for everyones time.

[united_by_truth]

Dual-boot is fine, unless the system is used to access the Internet. The trouble with a dual-boot system is that, when Window$ is running, all partitions of all drives are susceptible to attack.
I really don't know what I am talking about, but would not a good firewall in the Windows boot have helped here? The sad fact is that I doubt I can get completely away from Windows, at least for a while.

[rlh]

I really don't know what I am talking about, but would not a good firewall in the Windows boot have helped here? The sad fact is that I doubt I can get completely away from Windows, at least for a while.
A firewall is of relatively little benefit to the user, unless he has a full-time Internet connection (i.e., cable or DSL) with a static IP address. With dial-up and with most cable and DSL connections, the user is assigned a dynamic IP address (i.e., a different address with each log-on), and network address translation (NAT) may be involved; so that the typical user need not fear a direct attack by a hacker -- the type of attack against which a firewall protects.

The attack which is of immediate danger to the typical user is a virus or worm which piggy-packs upon email or a response to a browser request. The trouble is that no firewall can block the passage of malicious code which enters in response to a response to a browser request, or in an email attachment.

The function of a firewall is to prevent access through unauthorized ports (or "services"). But a response to any browser request is, by definition, authorized; as is email which a mail server downloads in response to a request from a mail client.

And virus scanners never are entirely up-to-date; the latest virus definitions supplied by Symantec or Mcafee may lag by several days the first attacks of a new virus. So you never can be sure that a Windows system has not been compromised.

Inasmuch as malicious hackers around the world are targeting Windows systems, the threat is clear and present. Because of the design of Windows, a Windows system which is in contact with the outside world simply cannot be made safe; sooner or later, it is going to be compromised. And if a Linux drive is in the same machine, it, too, is likely to be corrupted when Windows is compromised---unless you provide mechanical means of disconnecting the Linux drive while Windows is running.

So, if you have only one machine and must run dual-boot, make provision for routine data back-up and easy reinstallation of Linux; eventually you shall need it. Mandrake and other Linux systems typically allow you to record on floppy a list of installed packages. Keeping a detailed log of the original installion process takes time and effort, but such a log is VERY helpful when reinstallation becomes necessary.

Note also that so-called "internal firewalls" (such as ZoneAlarm) are Windows applications. As such, they may be defeated by malicious code which enters via the mail client or the browser. Once Windows itself is compromised, no Windows application is safe from compromise. Thus, an external firewall is much to be preferred.

RLH

[rlh]

Thanks for the input. I am slowly working toward my goal of running Linux. I don't even have a running system yet, but I am playing with Mandrake and Knoppix trying to learn enough to start.

What is your system? I was told that VMware wouldn't run on anything less than a screamer of a processor with a minimum of 1 GB RAM. Also, I noticed on a Knoppix site that they are working on a situation(?) that will run multiple operating systems simultaneously. I don't remember much about it. Have you heard of it? I think they said it was running in the Japaneese version.

Also, do you have any comments about T. C Black's remarks about Libronix? I use them to access Galaxie's Theological Journal Library. I can't afford to lose that.

What resources would you suggest for a newbie who is learning from scratch and has no one to ask questions to. I have found several Linux sites. Any you have found particularly helpful or any books?

Thanks for everyones time. Generally, it is best to choose a system on the basis of (1) compatibility with the application packages you intend to run and (2) support. Whatever your associates are running is the system you should be running, so that you can get help when you need it. Googling for the answer can get rather lonely. Check for a local Linux user group (LUG); LUGs often are affiliated with colleges and universities, or with the community computer club. And if you find one, adopt whichever distribution and desktop most of the members are running.

Installation is the real challenge, and the primary differentiating factor between the various distributions. Once a system is installed, there are few really significant differences between Mandrake, Fedora, Debian, SUSE. Typically, the choice of desktop (Gnome vs. KDE vs. ???) is of MUCH greater impact to the user than is the choice of distribution.

Some people love Knoppix. But with Knoppix, Slackware, and other non-mainstream distributions, you are way out in left field. Things get lonesome out in left field, particularly when something isn't working right and you can't find anyone who can solve the problem. The mainstream distributions are Mandrake, Fedora (the new consumer version of Red Hat), Debian, and SUSE. I run Debian, but I generally recommend Mandrake for the newbie.

The requirements of VMware are modest. Don't trust in hearsay; check out the VMware web site for yourself. As of last week, VMware does not yet support the 2.6 kernel. And, as of a year ago, VMware did not officially support Debian. Nevertheless, I purchased VMware and ran it under Debian, because at the time there was no good alternative.

There are numeous helpful Linux web sites. In books, just about anything published by O'Reilly is much better than almost anything published by anyone else.

Black says, "Libronix. It's so heavily dependant on IE that Linux would IMHO make it wasted money." But, after the IE exploits at the beginning of this month, consultants are advising everyone to uninstall IE and switch to Mozilla Firefox, Galeon, or Opera. IE now is running under WINE (at least, under CodeWeavers CrossOver Office), but there are some problems. Personally, I expect that Microsoft shall soon abandon IE and offer a substitute, thus forcing everyone to switch. So you'd best have a contingency plan regarding Libronix.

All things considered, as a Linux newbie who is isolated, you'll likely do best with Mandrake. It's too soon to know how well Fedora shall fare as a replacement for Red Hat. Forget Knoppix, unless you have a buddy who knows Knoppix and is willing to provide adequate support. To find Linux support on the web, Google for strings such as "linux help", "linux questions", "linux newbie", etc.

Investigate CodeWeavers CrossOver Office ("CX") for running Windows applications; you can get a trial download. I consider CX a better long-term solution than is VMware.

Finally, go ahead and take the plunge. Begin with a dual-boot system; you'll be no worse off than you are now. Download a set of Mandrake CD ISO images; burn the CDs; install Mandrake; and start using Mandrake for mail and browsing. In less than a month, you'll feel at home in the Linux environment. The only reasonable way to proceed is to get started, and then augment your knowledge bit by bit, as problems arise. If you wait until you are fully prepared to make the transition, you'll never switch.

RLH

[Philip Brown]

I'm not a Linux user, but I am an insider with Linspire and I just noticed that version 4.5 now allows users to run WINE. It looks to me like Linspire is one of the easiest Linux OSs for the non-techie to use. Installation is a cinch and the environment is a highly developed/refine windows environment (hence the original name Lindows).

Hadn't heard it mentioned so I thought I'd at least bring it up. Any tried working with BW under Linspire?

[david c]

Hi! I am about to purchase a new computer and expect to run a Linux only
machine. I think I want to run SuSE 9.1. Has anyone outthere had problems
running BibleWorks (6.0) using SuSE 9.0 or 9.1 + Codeweavers (including
exporting Bibleworks to KDE or Gnome wordprocessing software)? Also, has
anyone had trouble printing BibleWorks Greek or Hebrew texts on a HP Laserjet
6L? Thanks.

[Clinton Branscombe]

rlh wrote:
"A firewall is of relatively little benefit to the user, unless he has a full-time Internet connection (i.e., cable or DSL) with a static IP address. With dial-up and with most cable and DSL connections, the user is assigned a dynamic IP address (i.e., a different address with each log-on), and network address translation (NAT) may be involved; so that the typical user need not fear a direct attack by a hacker -- the type of attack against which a firewall protects."

I use WinXP Pro, have ZoneAlarm and do NOT have a static address, yet my ZoneAlarm log files show a lot of attempts to try to access my computer.


rlh also wrote earlier:

"Dual-boot is fine, unless the system is used to access the Internet. The trouble with a dual-boot system is that, when Window$ is running, all partitions of all drives are susceptible to attack."

I am a newbie to Linux (Mandrake), but when I am in WinXP, my Linux partition is invisible. I have not tried to find any software to allow me to access it, although I would assume it is possible. Mounting and accessing Windows files from Linux is quite easy. My question is this, unless the malware has access to the Master Boot Record, how can it do anything to the Linux partition? Even if it accesses it, shouldn't a proper system backup floppy or CD should be able to restore it?

[vr8ce]

A firewall is of relatively little benefit to the user, unless he has a full-time Internet connection (i.e., cable or DSL) with a static IP address. With dial-up and with most cable and DSL connections, the user is assigned a dynamic IP address (i.e., a different address with each log-on), and network address translation (NAT) may be involved; so that the typical user need not fear a direct attack by a hacker -- the type of attack against which a firewall protects. RLH

Wow. That statement is... Wrong with a capital W (no offense intended or implied). ZDNet (I believe) posted a news item in the last week or so that the average "break-in" time of an unprotected PC on the Net is down to 20 minutes (was 40 minutes last year). Having a dynamic IP is absolutely NO protection against a break-in; zero, zip, nada. If you're on the net more than that 20 minutes (let's be generous and say an hour), the odds are huge that someone will try to get access to your computer. If that computer is a typical Windows PC, odds are equally as huge that they'll be successful.

If the PC is behind a NAT router, *then* the need for a software firewall goes way down (not to zero, but way down nonetheless). If there's no router and no firewall, there's a big sign that says "Hack me." out on the Net.

This is very off-topic, I know, but I didn't want to take the chance that anyone would see that statement and not get a firewall or (better, IMO) a router for their dynamic IP PC. And I just saw the message, or I would have responded earlier. :)

Vince

[ericding]

I'm running Gentoo Linux with kernel 2.4.25, glibc 2.3.3, and have been using Crossover Office 1.3.5 for quite some time with sucess (running Quicken 99). I was even able to get BW4.0 running without a problem, but realized that the hand-me-down copy I got was unlicensed, so I bought BW6. Well, I haven't had as much success with BW6.0 -- whether with Crossover Office 1.3.5 or 3.0.1 (demo), I'm able to install DCOM/IE without a problem, and then install BW6 without a problem.

I'm even able to start up BW6 ok... but at some point during program execution, without any discernible pattern I've yet to discover, BW/wine will crash. :( Before the crash, I've gotten as far as browsing verses, seeing word tips appear, etc. -- yet at some point, wine crashes, and the limited backtrace offered in the debug log is not terribly illuminating (there's a page fault on read access to 0x0 in 32-bit code). Changing the "Windows" setting for bw600.exe hasn't improved things at all.

I don't suppose anyone here has seen (or resolved) similar symptoms?

[united_by_truth]

I'm running Gentoo Linux with kernel 2.4.25, glibc 2.3.3, and have been using Crossover Office 1.3.5 for quite some time with sucess (running Quicken 99). I was even able to get BW4.0 running without a problem, but realized that the hand-me-down copy I got was unlicensed, so I bought BW6. Well, I haven't had as much success with BW6.0 -- whether with Crossover Office 1.3.5 or 3.0.1 (demo), I'm able to install DCOM/IE without a problem, and then install BW6 without a problem.

I'm even able to start up BW6 ok... but at some point during program execution, without any discernible pattern I've yet to discover, BW/wine will crash. :( Before the crash, I've gotten as far as browsing verses, seeing word tips appear, etc. -- yet at some point, wine crashes, and the limited backtrace offered in the debug log is not terribly illuminating (there's a page fault on read access to 0x0 in 32-bit code). Changing the "Windows" setting for bw600.exe hasn't improved things at all.

I don't suppose anyone here has seen (or resolved) similar symptoms?
In a 5/17/04 post (see above & following posts), Wezlo said he had BW running flawlessly under cxoffice 3.0. I have been fooling around with Linux since about July. I had BW 5 installed once, but I other problems and had to wipe that install. I have recently tried to get BW 5 to install with cxoffice versions 2.1 and 3.0.1. I have not been able to get it to install. I don’t know much about Linux and I am getting frustrated. I should mention that I have been installing Mandrake 10.0.



I had really hoped to switch over to Linux, but I must get BW to work well before I can do that. I am beginning to think that is not a possibility. Does anybody have BW or BW5 running well on Linux? If so, what distribution? Interestingly, CodeWeavers implies that Mandrake and Fedora core have problems with cxoffice ( http://www.codeweavers.com/site/support/docs/crossover-standard/troubleshooting#FEDORA-CORE-2 (http://www.codeweavers.com/site/support/docs/crossover-standard/troubleshooting#MANDRAKE-10) ), but Wezlo was running Mandrake 10.0.

Any help would be appreciated.

[wezlo]

OK, here's the deal.
IN CX office before you install BW, install IE (and promptly hide the evil little icon and forget you have it). This installs the dcom98.exe that you need, AND allow html help in BW to work, AND allows the link to perseus to work as well. W/O IE installed, the BW installation hangs.

[Nickkk]

Just to reply briefly with my experience:
Mandrake 10.0
Bibleworks 6
cxoffice: 3.01

I have IE installed, and I think I did so before installing BW 6.

BW installs and mostly works fine (including auto-update), but I have a DEFINITE PROBLEM with the Word List manager. I can't load words into the secondary word list window. The focus always ends up on the Main Word List Window, and new words go in there, which is unfortunate, but hopefully not impossible to fix?

Mandrake 10.0 is very good, and utterly stable - I've never tried another flavour of Linux, and don't really intend to. I dual boot with Windows 98, but use Win 98 increasingly less, as the Linux OS and Software seem to improve at a fairly rapid rate.

Nick.

[ericding]

Hey all,

Please feel free as well to post your experiences, and vote for BibleWorks support, at Codeweavers' website. The more votes, the better:

http://www.codeweavers.com/site/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=155

BW6 still doesn't work consistently well on Gentoo Linux for me, but I have hopes that it will someday...

Thanks,
Eric

[ericding]

Hey all,

I've got a reproducible crash scenario with BW6 and multiple versions of Codeweavers Office 3.x, and am wondering if others can also reproduce this crash. I've tried it on Gentoo Linux, Fedora Core 2, and Mandrake 10.1 with similar results.

Essentially, I find that if I'm in browse mode (i.e., looking at whole passages in a single version), then it's reasonably stable. Once I switch to multiple-version mode, though, even if I only have a single version displayed, it eventually crashes randomly while I'm navigating around. For example, here's a reliable repro case:
Start up BW6; it's displaying Gen. 1 in browse mode in the KJV. Word tips and navigation seem to behave without issues.
Now I go to Gen. 1:1 again, and switch to multiple-version mode. Again, word tips seem to work fine.
Now I click on the down arrow to move to Gen. 1:2, and float back over the verse; next thing I know, BW6 has crashed (sometimes before a word tip shows up, sometimes after).
This crash even happens without word tips turned on.

[david c]

I installed CodeWeavers Office Professional and BibleWorks 6.0 this week. The CodeWeavers install seemed to complete successfully. The BibleWorks install aborted at the HTML Help section the rlh had mentioned above. I do not have MS Internet Explorer installed, so I will try to pick that up. Although I have only tried a few simple things, BibleWorks seems to run OK (except there is no response to "Help : Getting Started" and "Help : Online Help Topics"). I installed Codeweavers in the Managed Multi-User mode. My problem is that when I run BibleWorks as a regular user, all my preference settings (ex. choosing Display Versions, etc) are lost when I exit BibleWorks. The are saved when I run BibleWorks as root. The BibleWorks User Manual has a section on configuring BibleWorks for a network, but I am not quite sure how to translate that to a Linux system. In particular it discribes how to set up a short cut on the "users computer" to the executable on the network. Is this something that would go in a BibleWorks file, and if so, which one? I am running a single PC, but have set up multilple users and would like each to have their own data files, but preferably only have one set of program files. Also, should the individual data files be in the /opt/cxoffice directory or in their /home directories. I am a newbie for both Linux and BibleWorks. Thanks in advance for any help.

David C.

[wezlo]

The HTML help will work perfectly if you install IE (I close my eyes, install IE, erase the icons so I don't know it's there, and then wash my hands). In the cxoffice setup you can set up any default browser you wish, so if you want to search on something in the perseus web-site you can use, say, firefox instead of IE (oh happy day).
You can get further help for BW in cxoffice at codeweavers web-site. I'm one of two current advocate for getting working in IE. All you need to do is go to the compatibility section, and search for Bibleworks; we'll help you out all you want (of course, you can always post here as well).
As for each user having separate data files; in cxoffice professional that should have been an option in setup. As an advocate, I have access to cxoffice professional; but my setup is just for a single user, single machine, so I've not done what you want to do. When you install cxoffice, what did you use: rpm? deb? loki-installer?
Here's to dreaming of a native linux install one day...

[wezlo]

DCOM98 isn't on your supported programs list? I usually install IE and it get's it (and then I've got it an HTML help).
BTW, don't forget to change your default browser in the cxoffice control panel; that way you can use another browser for perseus look-ups and such...

Wes

[wezlo]

I installed CodeWeavers Office Professional and BibleWorks 6.0 this week. The CodeWeavers install seemed to complete successfully. The BibleWorks install aborted at the HTML Help section the rlh had mentioned above. I do not have MS Internet Explorer installed, so I will try to pick that up. Although I have only tried a few simple things, BibleWorks seems to run OK (except there is no response to "Help : Getting Started" and "Help : Online Help Topics"). I installed Codeweavers in the Managed Multi-User mode. My problem is that when I run BibleWorks as a regular user, all my preference settings (ex. choosing Display Versions, etc) are lost when I exit BibleWorks. The are saved when I run BibleWorks as root. The BibleWorks User Manual has a section on configuring BibleWorks for a network, but I am not quite sure how to translate that to a Linux system. In particular it discribes how to set up a short cut on the "users computer" to the executable on the network. Is this something that would go in a BibleWorks file, and if so, which one? I am running a single PC, but have set up multilple users and would like each to have their own data files, but preferably only have one set of program files. Also, should the individual data files be in the /opt/cxoffice directory or in their /home directories. I am a newbie for both Linux and BibleWorks. Thanks in advance for any help.

David C.

David,
Look in the cxoffice documentation; chances are you've got to set up something cxoffice specific (the network section of BW's docs may not be of much help). Like I said, I'll try to check it out...

[david c]

Thanks for you reply. I currently do not have IE at all. As I recall that ...98 file did show as a supported application by codeweavers, but the install box was shaded, I assume that was because I do not have it on my computer. I used the auto installer (InstallShield ?) on Codeweavers (I am replying from work). Thanks. david c

[wezlo]

Hey all,

I've got a reproducible crash scenario with BW6 and multiple versions of Codeweavers Office 3.x, and am wondering if others can also reproduce this crash. I've tried it on Gentoo Linux, Fedora Core 2, and Mandrake 10.1 with similar results.

Essentially, I find that if I'm in browse mode (i.e., looking at whole passages in a single version), then it's reasonably stable. Once I switch to multiple-version mode, though, even if I only have a single version displayed, it eventually crashes randomly while I'm navigating around. For example, here's a reliable repro case:
Start up BW6; it's displaying Gen. 1 in browse mode in the KJV. Word tips and navigation seem to behave without issues.
Now I go to Gen. 1:1 again, and switch to multiple-version mode. Again, word tips seem to work fine.
Now I click on the down arrow to move to Gen. 1:2, and float back over the verse; next thing I know, BW6 has crashed (sometimes before a word tip shows up, sometimes after).
This crash even happens without word tips turned on.


Eric, I cannot reproduce this crash. On the codeweavers forum I guess we figured out that the only difference between our install attempts was that you copyied another file into fake_windows that I didn't copy... I'm running fine...

[twilhite]

BW installed an works fairly well under FedoraCore3; I am having trouble with the Greek and Hebrew fonts not displaying correctly. Any thoughts

-tim

[wezlo]

Do you have them installed? Do they show up in any other programs? I'm not sure if fedora core used fontconfig, but I have to assume it does (it's a modern distro, after all). Try this.
Create a directory, if it doesn't exist, called .fonts (you must have the period installed). Copy all the BW fonts that you want to use to this directory and restart your X server (an ugly way is "control-alt-backspace"). The fonts should be available to your desktop session then; see if BW sees them.
What are you running BW through...

[twilhite]

I am using XOver Office Standard. I look in my home directory; I found .font-cache-1. I will try what you have suggested.

[twilhite]

I tried creating the .font directory; the Greek/Hebrew fonts do not appear correctly. Where does CrossOver Office install the fonts?https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=mail&passive=true&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fgmail.google.com%2Fgmailhttp s://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=mail&passive=true&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fgmail.google.com%2Fgmail

[david c]

Hi! My Greek and Hebrew fonts are OK in the BibleWorks editor and they print OK from the editor, but when I copy them to a word processor, they are transliterated and/or become garbage. I have tried AbiWord, KWord, Kile, and OpenOffice.org Writer. I have been given a copy of MS Word (97?), but I don't want to install it if the results are not better. Can text with Greek font be copied to a word processor on a Linux only machine? If so, what word processor and how (if not just cut and paste)? Thanks.

David C.

[united_by_truth]

I have been running Linux as my work OS for about 3 months. My distro is Mepis and I am running BW under Win4Lin. It opens as a window on the Linux desktop. I can cut and paste from BW Greek or Hebrew to OpenOffice with no display or printing problem. (PageMaker under Windows won't properly handle the BW fonts with nondeleting backspaces without some tweaking) I can also type Greek or Hebrew in OpenOffice so you shouldn't need MSWord. OpenOffice even has provision for right to left text. From OO help:
Languages Using Complex Text Layout Currently, OpenOffice.org supports Hindi, Thai, Hebrew, and Arabic as CTL languages (http://vnd.sun.star.help://swriter/65619?Language=en-US&System=UNIX&Eid=ctl).

If you select the text flow from right to left, you will automatically type text formatted in Hindi, Thai, Hebrew, or Arabic from right to left, while embedded Western text still runs from left to right. The cursor responds to the arrow keys in that Right Arrow moves it "to the text end" and Left Arrow "to the text start".

You can change the text writing direction directly be pressing one of the following keys:




Ctrl+Shift+D or Ctrl+Right Shift Key - switch to right-to-left text entryCtrl+Shift+A or Ctrl+Left Shift Key - switch to left-to-right text entry






Complex Text Layout (CTL)

Languages with complex text layout may have some or all of the following features:



The language is written with characters or glyphs that are composed of several parts
The text direction is from right to left.
Currently, OpenOffice.org supports Hindi, Thai, Hebrew, and Arabic as CTL languages.

Enable CTL support using Tools - Options - Language Settings - Languages (http://vnd.sun.star.help://swriter/67896?Language=en-US&System=UNIX).

Languages Using Complex Text Layout (http://vnd.sun.star.help://swriter/68677?Language=en-US&System=UNIX)



Mepis has a font installer, which is really just a GUI for copying to the font folder I would suppose. I just dragged BW fonts from the Windows font folder that I use for Win4Lin and they show up fine.

One problem is that the protion Gen. 1:1-20 that I copied into OO not only ran from right to left, but from bottom to top -- 1:20 was on the top line. It also works that way when typing. I am sure it is a setting, but I don't have time to mess with it now.

BTW, using Win4Lin ($65 at Newegg) and an old Win98 license allows me to use PageMaker and the Theological Journal Library which uses the Logos reader while running Linux. Windows under Linux is so much better than native Windows. Last week I had to run under Windows for a couple of days for the first time in a couple of months. Wow! I had forgotten how good Linux is.:D It just never crashes or locks up. And if I can plug a distro without starting a war, Mepis was great for me. I would have given up on Linux without it.

[wezlo]

Hi! My Greek and Hebrew fonts are OK in the BibleWorks editor and they print OK from the editor, but when I copy them to a word processor, they are transliterated and/or become garbage. I have tried AbiWord, KWord, Kile, and OpenOffice.org Writer. I have been given a copy of MS Word (97?), but I don't want to install it if the results are not better. Can text with Greek font be copied to a word processor on a Linux only machine? If so, what word processor and how (if not just cut and paste)? Thanks.

David C.
Try using the post-script font's under linux, instead of the true-type ones; I had this problem previously and that fixed it for me. Also, if you download the latest ttf and drop them in .fonts they should work....

[wezlo]

I tried creating the .font directory; the Greek/Hebrew fonts do not appear correctly. Where does CrossOver Office install the fonts?https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=mail&passive=true&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fgmail.google.com%2Fgmailhttp s://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=mail&passive=true&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fgmail.google.com%2Fgmail
cxoffice will install the fonts in ~/.cxoffice dotwine/fake_windows/WINDOWS/FONTS (I think that's all the layers, it's buried pretty deep...
Are the fonts available in any other programs, like Kword or OOo?

[Boris T]

thanks for the details everyone, I will keep them in mind for the future. It appears my laptop got a bug BEHIND the campus firewall :eek: I want to install RH9 but time is the issue for me. It's hard enough to study for class and then add in a new OS and all the setup that goes with it.

Travis

[wezlo]

thanks for the details everyone, I will keep them in mind for the future. It appears my laptop got a bug BEHIND the campus firewall :eek: I want to install RH9 but time is the issue for me. It's hard enough to study for class and then add in a new OS and all the setup that goes with it.

Travis
Travis,
If you want to use a RH system, install the latest Fedora Core rather than RH 9; you'll get better community support and newer packages...

[Boris T]

Travis,
If you want to use a RH system, install the latest Fedora Core rather than RH 9; you'll get better community support and newer packages...

Thanks Wezlo....

I have a full install of RH9 (that is why I mentioned it) and hoping to jump into the world of Linux but classes are tough right now..... probably will have to wait.

Am I correct that the latest Fedora could be considered RH10? Where is the best place to get the Fedora core?

Like I said, this Linux stuff is new. After last week I am getting pretty good at troubleshooting Windoze products but that wastes valuable time that should be devoted to systematic theology and exegesis.:rolleyes:

Travis

[wezlo]

Well, I wouldn't go with Fedora at all, but if you want to use that that's cool (and it's a very decent distro, to be honest). I'd install Umbuntu, and then use apt-get to install kde...

[united_by_truth]

I'd install Umbuntu, and then use apt-get to install kde...
If you are going to install KDE why not go with Mepis out of the box?

[wezlo]

If you are going to install KDE why not go with Mepis out of the box?
I'm actually using Mepis right now, and it's great; but Umbuntu is more "stock" so you can use apt-get upgrade w/o breaking the system. Mepis is getting further and further away from Unstable, and that sometimes causes problems; particularly with kernels.
I'm going to try out Umbuntu again, and see how that works. The great thing about a debian-based distro is how easy it is to replicate it...

[united_by_truth]

Thanks for the answer. This is probably not the place to ask, but do you know if the kernel in Ubuntu is patched for Win4Lin?

[united_by_truth]

do you know if the kernel in Ubuntu is patched for Win4Lin?
From looking at Ubuntu forums I think I answered my own question: No, not out of the box. But there are ways to patch the kernel if one is comfortable with doing it.

[david c]

Wezlo,

Thanks for your help. The Greek and Hebrew fonts now appear OK in my word processor. I discovered that the fonts in three word processors supplied by SuSE (OpenOffice.org Writer, KWord, and AbiWord) all have the same fonts. They are TrueType fonts (*.ttf) and in usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/truetype directory. There are several copies of the BibleWorks fonts. They are also TrueType fonts and are in the following directories:
/opt/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/Program Files/BibleWorks 6
/opt/cxoffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/windows/fonts
/home/david/.cxoffice/dotwine/fake_windows/Program Files/BibleWorks 6 and
/home/david/.cxoffice/dotwine/fake_windows/windows/fonts.

I don't know if this was the best solution or not, but I just copied the *.ttf files in the BibleWorks directory into the /usr/X11... directory. Everything works fine now. The Hebrew is even right justified!

With regard to my previous post about persistence of the preferences, that was solved by enabling the "Save network file paths in .ini files" in the Shutdown Options when running as root, putting the *.ini files in the trash and restarting BibleWorks. When I tried enabling that option when running as a regular user, I was unable to restart BibleWorks as any user. This was discussed in Section 6.5 Configuring BibleWorks for Use on a Network of BibleWorks 6 Users Manual. It also discussed coping all *.dll files to each users computer (directory), but this was already done by either Codeweavers, or BibleWorks when I first ran it. It also talks about creating a short cut to the user's computer. I could not make heads or tails from what the book said, but I had instructed BibleWorks/Codeweavers to put an icon on the desktop. This was put on the root's desktop and I just copied it onto each user's desktop by dragging it. No problems.

Currently BibleWorks is not seeing any of my *.chm, *.hhc and *.hhk files. For example, when I try to open Matthew Henry's Commentary I get "The resource file
c:\program files\BibleWorks 6\databases\mhenry.chm is not currently installed. It can be installed by inserting your BibleWorks CD #1 and following the instructions for modifying you installation". The file is in directory
/opt/cxofffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/program files/BibleWorks/databases/mhenry.chm and /home/david/.cxofffice/dotwine/fake_windows/program files/BibleWorks/databases/mhenry.chm.

Also, when I try to open the Timeline, I get "Cannot Open/Create File : c\program files\BibleWorks 6\timeline\creation.erc" and ... PSTFLOOD.erc, ... WILDRNSS.erc, ... PROMLAND.erc, etc. although the files exist as:
/opt/cxofffice/support/dotwine/fake_windows/program files/BibleWorks/timeline/creation.erc and
/home/david/.cxofffice/dotwine/fake_windows/program files/BibleWorks/timeline/creation.erc.
For now I am assuming this is because of an incomplete installation of BibleWorks. I downloaded DCOM98.exe and IE at the library and copied them onto my computer and tried to install them via Codeweavers. As I recall DCOM98 installed OK, but did not seem to effect the way BibleWorks installed (compared to just DCOM95 alone). When I tried to install IE via Codeweavers, it tried to check for updates, but since I have not figured out how to get my browser to talk to the internet, it was not able to successfully check for updates. I am hoping that once I get connected to the internet, IE can successfully check for updates and that will allow BibleWorks to install fully and the above two problems will be fixed. Thanks again for all your help. United by Truth, thanks for taking the time to post your response above as well. Blessings.

David C.

[Gontroppo]

Here I go again:
On various forums I read about people using Linux and other non-Windows products to access programs such as BibleWorks. It always seems like you folk have to go through hoops to achieve this.

What is better about doing it this way over Windows, in which it is all there for you in the first place?

Hope you don't mind my question.

David McKay
www.davidmckay.info (http://www.davidmckay.info)

[wezlo]

What is better about doing it this way over Windows, in which it is all there for you in the first place?
Depends on the person. Some run linux for purely philosophical reasons (freedom), others run it because they are sick of viruses and spyware that gets on their machine no matter what they do, still more want something that is much more stable than any windows version that's ever been put out, and even more just want to have a better set of tools at their disposal than in Windows. Oh, and the community behind open source projects has a great deal to teach the Church about what a community is.
All of the above are true for me; and with cxoffice and BW, I've had no "hoops" to jump through. BW runs well, and in KDE I am much more productive than I ever was in windows. I don't worry about being nailed by the latest IE flaw; and my system doesn't crash frequently. Besides that, the community aspect of open-source is very appealing to me. I talk with the actual developers of some of the software that I use, making suggestions, reporting bugs, asking questions; and they respond. In the Windows world the only product that I've encountered with that is BW.
In the end, it's freedom that really wins my heart.

[united_by_truth]

As usual Wezlo has given an excellent response. For me the switch to Linux started as a money issue. Could I go to Linux and keep my older hardware (Dell PIII 600 384MB RAM) and not have all the upgrade costs in hardware and licenses from Win98 to XP or Longhorn on two machines (home and church)? Then when I realized that Adobe was abandoning PageMaker 7.0 and it probably would not run under the next Windows version (PM 6.5 won't run under XP), it became a compatibility issue. Finally when Dell, after 15 hours of phone calls, told me that the reason my computer wouldn't run was the Windows operating system, I decided to take the plunge. BTW, it ran fine on Linux.

It was a bit bumpy at first, but now with Mepis, Win4Lin ($68), and an old Win 98 license I can run BibleWorks, PageMaker, Theological Journal Library (Logos Libronix Library system) better than they ever ran under native Windows. If one does crash (very rarely) it does not take down my OS and other stuff like a word processor or mail or browser.

No Win upgrade fees, no problem with PageMaker or forced upgrade to InDesign, no more software fees (I just feel better about donating), better operability, friendly support, more security, and it is just plain fun... GOOD QUESTION, why would anybody want to go through hoops to achieve this?

Now I can save for a BW upgrade.:)

[wezlo]

Thank you for the compliment!
I used to run BW via win4lin; but with cxoffice I don't feel like I'm switching OS's to run one program and the fonts look SOOOO much better...
Have you tried Scribus out lately? Great community, and a pretty nice DTP app...

[united_by_truth]

Wezlo, you are one of the main reasons I am using Linux. You gave me hope.:)

Crossover Office worked fine for BW, but I could not get PageMaker to run effectively under it. I don't remember if I even got to the point of trying Libronix or not. It is closely tied to IE Browser, so it might work under CO fine. (Just an aside, the license for CO bothered me a bit. If I read it correctly no one but me could use it even on my computer--not my wife or kids or youth pastor... Maybe I read it wrong.) I guess I don't have the feel of switching OS. It is just another window on the desktop and it works like it has for years, so I don't notice a significant difference.

As for Scribus, I want to learn it and will probably switch to it in the future for current documents. However, I have many, many documents and Greek diagrams dating from BW 2.0 and PM 4.0 days. Scribus (and nothing else I can find) will open or convert them. Hence the preoccupation with PM and a major reason I am now in Linux. I can retain access to my PM diagrams.

BTW, I also use OnlineBible and e-Sword for the reference works (I know they are old and unscholarly). How about BibleTime for Linux? Have you had any experience with it?

[wezlo]

Wezlo, you are one of the main reasons I am using Linux. You gave me hope.:)

Awww, warm-fuzzies...
I know your problem with the diagrams and nothing being able to open them. of course, you could export to pdf...or just print to a post-script file.
I actually use Scribus for my Hebrew syntax work, it's pretty nice. Just today I was thinking however, "Gee, Bibletime is unicode, and they've got the Lenningrad Codex in there.....and OOo supports unicode....hmmm..." I think I've done my last Hebrew work in Scribus, I'll let you know how it works out. I did a partial syntax outline of Psalm 42 in about 5 minutes, that's a ton of copy/paste/move in Scribus. We'll see... Now, Scribus for anything else DTP, however, is a no-brainer....
CXoffice can be installed entirely as a user app; which is how they prefer that it be set up. For a local machine, however, you can install as root adn allow access to to other users, as long as only one user is working with an app at a time. I don't have a problem with this, but then again I'm the only person using BW on this laptop...

[ericding]

hey all,

just another (revised) data point: after having to do a clean install of Gentoo Linux on my system last week, complete with latest 2.6 kernel and so forth, I found to my delight that BibleWorks 6.0 runs without hiccup under Crossover Office now! No "hoops" to jump through -- just installed BW under Crossover Office as normal, and it worked. I've no idea why I was seeing crashes before, and as a developer I'm still a little curious, but as a user i'm content not knowing as long as it "just works." :)

i've also installed the BW fonts under OpenOffice.org and copy/paste works just fine as well. Hoorah!

eric

[wezlo]

weird. Glad it works now though.... I saw you updated your medal at codeweavers too, sweet!

[gdrew]

I'm not sure if I am doing this right. this is a bit hard to follow.
Anyway I would like to get BW6 up and running on Linux Mandrake 10.
I am new to Linux. So far I have Wine on Mandrake 10, but I am not sure of the way forward re loading BW6 onto the system and using it. Can you give me some simple instructions to getting started?
ugbc@hotkey.net.au




Well, I've been a Mandrake user since 7.0 and I've had my ups and downs with them. I'm running 10.0 Community right now and I really like it. If I hadn't liked it, I would have switched to Knoppix or Fedora by now. You CAN install Knoppix on to the HD, there is an ever evolving script that helps you through the process. I've got a friend who's been using Knoppix for about 2 years now, he's in love with the thing. Knoppix also has a lot of community surrounding it (www.knoppix.new) which is a real plus. It's also "free as in speach and free as in beer" which is also good (but there are places to donate money to continue development, which is a good thing to do).

I wouldn't use knoppix right off the bat though. You're better off with Xandros or Mandrake. You can still download Mandrake for free, and their package manager (urpmi) is right up there with "apt" (which is a thing of beauty). If you want to get a boxed set, I'd purchase Xandros though; it's utilities are highly rated AND last time I checked their boxed set comes with crossOver Office, which can run BW! (at least 3.0 can, which is what I'm going to purchase this week).

On the other hand, Mandrake is pretty dang good, has a better community then Xandros, and mandrakeclub is actually a pretty valuable thing (I pay $120 a year for a silver membership, I've been happy). Mandrake also runs cxoffice 3.0 just fine, which is how I'm currently running BW (flawlessly, I might add; EVERYTHING works).

[wezlo]

I'm not sure if I am doing this right. this is a bit hard to follow.
Anyway I would like to get BW6 up and running on Linux Mandrake 10.
I am new to Linux. So far I have Wine on Mandrake 10, but I am not sure of the way forward re loading BW6 onto the system and using it. Can you give me some simple instructions to getting started?
ugbc@hotkey.net.au
Well, the easiest way to install BW in linux is to go to www.codeweavers.com ("http://www.codeweavers.com) and purchase cross-over office. It's worth it, trust me.

When you install CrossOver office there will be a control panel that gets installed along with it. You need to go to "install new programs" and install the following from the list....

1. Dcom95
2. Internet Explorer (though it grieves me to install this on an innocent linux partition, you'll need it for the install to work, delete the icon after it's installed).

Then, click "installed unsupported application" and select the BW installer, it should work fine, and even put an icon on the desktop.

[united_by_truth]

When BW goes unicode in BW 7.0 how will that affect us? I also use e-sword and had trouble with the most recent update properly displaying Greek and Hebrew. E-sword support said the problem was that Win 98 (which I run under win4lin) didn't support unicode. They sent me a fix, but what does our future hold? For those who run BW under CrossOver Office will it be a problem? I wonder if the next version of BW will run on Win 98.:confused:

[wezlo]

When BW goes unicode in BW 7.0 how will that affect us? I also use e-sword and had trouble with the most recent update properly displaying Greek and Hebrew. E-sword support said the problem was that Win 98 (which I run under win4lin) didn't support unicode. They sent me a fix, but what does our future hold? For those who run BW under CrossOver Office will it be a problem? I wonder if the next version of BW will run on Win 98.:confused:
It won't be a problem, both kde and gnome are fully unicode compliant. Actually, I'm rather looking forward to it because it'll make doing hebrew discourse analysis a lot easier.

If you want to see how unicode hebrew/windows works right now, go to www.crosswire.org and check out the sword project (depending on what version of linux you use you can get it through rpm or apt, "apt-get install bibletime" is a fun command).

What BW needs to do when it goes unicode is finally drop the hacked rtf format for the editor. I'd suggested in the past that they adopt OOo's file format, now that OOo 2.0 is coming out, the openDoc format is looking like a pretty good candidate for BW 7.0 (and they may submit it as an iso standard to boot.... let's ride this one...).

[wezlo]

Hi all, the only problem I have with the updater is that I cannot get the NET Bible to install properly - does anyone have any ideas?

[united_by_truth]

Has anyone used BibleWorks on Win4Lin Pro? Does the updater work, etc.? I currently use BW 5 on Win4Lin for Win 98 and it is fine, but in planning for the future I was thinking of going to Win4Lin Pro for Win 2000 and upgrading to BW 7. Any thoughts? I noticed Wexlo's problem in the previous post and just wondered.

[wezlo]

Has anyone used BibleWorks on Win4Lin Pro? Does the updater work, etc.? I currently use BW 5 on Win4Lin for Win 98 and it is fine, but in planning for the future I was thinking of going to Win4Lin Pro for Win 2000 and upgrading to BW 7. Any thoughts? I noticed Wexlo's problem in the previous post and just wondered.

EVERYTHING should work with win4lin. Here's the drawbacks going that route...

1. You have to have a windows license on hand (it looks like you have win2000, so you're fine there).
2. It's a separate operating environment, so copy/paste between windows and linuxs apps is not as easy as when using a wine setup.
3. I've heard that the new win4lin pro isn't anywhere near as fast as the old version that was using the linux kernel to replace dos - of course, I don't think you need a custom kernel anymore either so that's awesome.

If you go this route could you post on two things:

1. Are the fonts anti-aliased yet?
2. What's the speed like?

OH and I fixed my netbible problem the other day. I upgraded the latest cxoffice (verdict: hold off until the next incremental release, bugs installing BW - if you want to check out the speed of the new wine, just install that and run BW through it). What has happening is the description file was gettin corrupted with some extra characters somehow, so I fixed it in kate and now it works (it was actually crashing bw!).

[basfrank]

Hi forum,
I use Ubuntu Linux 5.10.
Is there anyone here that uses bw with ubuntu, too?
Bastian

[wezlo]

Hi forum,
I use Ubuntu Linux 5.10.
Is there anyone here that uses bw with ubuntu, too?
Bastian

I'm running kubuntu (breezy) and it runs fine.
The latest cxoffice has some installer issues with BW - BUT there are tools out there right now that will all you to install IE pretty easy with "vanilla" wine - so I'm thinking that the BW installer might actually work through that now as well...

Haven't TRIED it yet, mind you - but when I reformat my old desktop for the kiddie computer I'll give it a try...

[teus]

Has anyone managed to install BibleWorks on Fedora Core 4?

I tried it using CrossOver Office 5, but all letters ara garbled up on the screen.

Are there any pointers on how to do that?

[wezlo]

Gang, bad news. BW 7 is buggy at BEST under wine for me. The button-bar doesn't draw, (I have no idea why), I have a reproducible crash in multi-version mode when I mouse over texts, the module CD doesn't like installing the files, and the editor button-bar refuses to wrap on the screen, and no keyboard layouts are showing up to choose from. It's rather depressing to see this - but that's where I'm at. I've tried installing two different ways, my plain wine install, and a new setup that I tried out to see if there were any bugs in my first setup. I'm going to try cxoffice now - but I'm not hopeful.

I want to apologize to folks who were hoping that BW7 would work as well as previous versions. I had an opportunity to beta-test and got my name just a couple of days late. I'll get some debugging info out if the wine-folks will be helpful and maybe we can get this to work. I'd like to REALLY stress that we need BW to at least go QT-based so that a native version of BW is possible to use. Until then, win4lin might be the best way to run bw7 in a linux environment.

Sigh.

[wezlo]

OK gang, here's the deal:

If you install BW7, run winecfg (if it's not on your system install winetools) and use that config editor to run BW7 as windows 2000 or above. If you to this the crash problems in multi-version mode and on exit cease to be a problem. I'm STILL having some troubles:

1. The main tool-bar isn't drawing (anyone got any ideas here).
2. BW will not interface with my keyboard-maps in KDE so the editor is all but worthless for anything but english and non-unicode greek (I can't get non-unicode hebrew to go RTL - not sure what that's about).

If anyone else has ideas and experience, please let me know.

[Columcille]

What are your versions? Which version of wine? What distro? Which version of KDE?

[wezlo]

Has anyone used BibleWorks on Win4Lin Pro? Does the updater work, etc.? I currently use BW 5 on Win4Lin for Win 98 and it is fine, but in planning for the future I was thinking of going to Win4Lin Pro for Win 2000 and upgrading to BW 7. Any thoughts? I noticed Wexlo's problem in the previous post and just wondered.
You shoudl be fine in win4lin because it's a virtual machine so BW is actually running in windows. I'm about to test a new free edition of vmware under winXP, I'll give reports. Still, I need wine to work, it's integration into my working environment is a wonderful thing..

[wezlo]

What are your versions? Which version of wine? What distro? Which version of KDE?
For the wait...

Right now I'm running Kubuntu Breezy and wine 0.9.8.
KDE version is 3.5.0

Here's what I did:
I installed wine.
I installed winetools (do a google search, it's easy to find). And I used that to installed dcom98 and IE (and then promptly buried IE so I didn't have to look at the evil thing).
Then I installed BW.
Before opening up BW I ran 'winecfg' and added the bw700.exe executable to the main tab, telling it to run as windows XP (win2000 works just as well).

While unicode in the editor is hopelessly broken, exporting unicode from the browse window (or whatever it's called now) works pretty good with a variety of unicode fonts (I've tried silGalatia, SBLHebrew, Silver Humana, Code2000, and Ezra Sil so far). This is how I primarily use BW7 (I left 6 installed in case I want to use the editor).

The other thing is this - vmware has released a free "server version" of vmware. I installed XP into a virtual machine and have BW in there. This is less attractive to me (as I can't stand XP), but everything works as it would on a native machine. I did have to go with the post-script fonts, though - because the video driver vmware uses gives that old bug with clear-type and the accents in hebrew/greek.

Still WE NEED A NATIVE LINUX VERSION.

[Columcille]

Sounds pretty close to my setup, I'm running Gentoo with KDE 3.5.1, using Wine 0.9.8, also already have all the winetools installed. And I have about the same problems, with the toolbar being one of two that annoy me. The other is for some odd reason when I scroll up in the Bible window, the font doesn't refresh properly and is printed a bit distorted. There are a few ways to make it refresh, but the problem is annoying. I had the same issue with BW 6. Still, I can live with that and I don't use the toolbar too often so I can live without it, but it would be nice to see it working.

As for a native linux version, I don't see that happening. Too much work to do just for the 6 of us that are interested in it.

[united_by_truth]

I have run BibleWorks and a few other necessary applications under Win4Lin98 for about a year and a half. It works great. But when Mepis dropped support for it in kernel 2.6.15 I thought I would give the Pro version a try. It was SLOW. Well version 2.6 claimed to be faster. I gave it a try. I have an install of Mepis 3.3.1-1 with Win4Lin98 and an install of Mepis 3.4 with Win4Lin Pro 2.6 with Win 2000 on the same machine so I ran some identical searches in BibleWorks and in Libronix Theological Journals Library. I will list the search, 98 version results, Pro version results.

Journals Library for YHWH all resources: 2 min 32 sec; 2 min. 28 sec.
Journals Library for YHWH Bib Sac only: 38 sec.; 29 sec.
Journals Library for "Zane Hodges" Bib Sac only: 1 min. 40 sec.; 36 sec.
BibleWorks NKJ for the: 5.38 sec.; 3.4 sec.
BibleWorks NKJ for "the Lord": 1.1 sec; 1.06 sec.
BibleWorks ASE Granville Sharps: 6.76 sec; 10.22 sec. (no, I did not reverse these)

I cannot compare them to a native install under either Windows operating system, because I do not have a Windows install. However, when I switched from Windows I felt (very subjective) that BW ran better in Win4Lin98 than it had run on my native install. Anyway, for those interested, it looks like Win4Lin Pro has in fact greatly improved. I wonder why the big difference in the ASE search.

[teus]

Gang, here are some instructions on how to get bw7 to run on wine: bibledit.sourceforge.net. It didn't install on cxoffice 5.

[Columcille]

I've just installed BW 7.0 on the eval version of crossover office 5.0, but I can't tell a difference between running it under cx from under wine. Seems to run at about the same speed, and it has the same problem drawing the toolbar. Also I have a continuing problem with how it draws the fonts - when I scroll down a passage, the text displays properly. When I scroll up something funky happens and the text I scroll into is unreadable unless I do something that forces a redraw, such as double click a word or some such. This issue occured for me under wine with bw 6 and is the same with bw 7. The issue continues to happen under cx 5.

I did a few simple things to install under cx 5 and I'm not sure which step made the difference. Like others, I kept getting an error (-2147024877) when installing under cx5, so I tried a few things. First, I created an alternate bottle. A new bottle can be created during software installation, but I created the bottle beforehand. I set it to use Win 98. When I installed Bibleworks I told it not to create a desktop icon (that shouldn't cause any problem at all, but who knows...) and... that's about it. I think those were the steps I took. And again, I can't really tell a difference between cx office and a generic wine install.

[ingosorke]

Linux Users, are you aware of www.tuxmagazine.com (http://www.tuxmagazine.com)?

No response necessary, probably preaching to the choir, but thought I'd share the resource.

Ingo

[ubuntu_user]

Installed BW7 on Ubuntu Linux 5.10 (Linux 2.6 core) with Crossover Office (Demo).
Compaq Deskpro EN PIII 800MHZ,512MB RAM
X-Windows = Gnome 2.12
So far no show-stopping issues including instructional videos. All seems to work as if on native WIndows.
DECOM95, IE6, Macromedia Flash/shockwave players installed

No extensive testing at this point.
Exit application = error and wants you to choose some shutdown options.
I will need to investigate further.

[ubuntu_user]

Hi forum,
I use Ubuntu Linux 5.10.
Is there anyone here that uses bw with ubuntu, too?
Bastian

Yes... Installed BW7 on Ubuntu Linux 5.10 (Linux 2.6 core) with Crossover Office (Demo).
Compaq Deskpro EN PIII 800MHZ,512MB RAM
X-Windows = Gnome 2.12
So far no show-stopping issues including instructional videos. All seems to work as if on native WIndows.
DECOM95, IE6, Macromedia Flash/shockwave players installed

No extensive testing at this point.
Exit application = error and wants you to choose some shutdown options.
I will need to investigate further.

[wezlo]

Gang, is anyone else's system font ugly as sin using wine? I know there's a fix for it, but I can't find the howto anymore...

Anyone?

[ubuntu_user]

Maybe Crossover Office would work for you. Fonts are the major issue from all I have read with BW on Linux

[ubuntu_user]

delete delete

[ubuntu_user]

Maybe Crossover Office would work for you. Fonts are the major issue from all I have read with BW on Linux

Sorry... disregard this message... I reviewed your other posts:o

[united_by_truth]

WOW! I just installed SimplyMepis 6.0 with VMware Player and it appears that this will be a great way to run BibleWorks and those other "must have" Windows applications. I have BW5 and hope soon to upgrade to 7. As I stated in a previous post, I have run BibleWorks and a few other necessary applications under Win4Lin98 and it worked great. But when Mepis dropped support for it in kernel 2.6.15 I thought I would give the Pro version a try. It was SLOW. Well version 2.6 claimed to be faster. I gave it a try. I have an install of Mepis 3.3.1-1 with Win4Lin98 and an install of Mepis 3.4 with Win4Lin Pro 2.6 with Win 2000 on the same machine so I ran some identical searches in BibleWorks and in Libronix Theological Journals Library. I my new install is also on the same machine. I will list the search, 98 version results, Pro version results and Mepis 6.0 with VMware Player.

Journals Library for YHWH all resources: 2 min 32 sec; 2 min. 28 sec.; 1 min. 34 sec.
Journals Library for YHWH Bib Sac only: 38 sec.; 29 sec.; 9 sec.
Journals Library for "Zane Hodges" Bib Sac only: 1 min. 40 sec.; 36 sec.; 12 sec.
BibleWorks NKJ for the: 5.38 sec.; 3.4 sec.; 1.8 sec.
BibleWorks NKJ for "the Lord": 1.1 sec; 1.06 sec.; 0.4 sec.
BibleWorks ASE Granville Sharps: 6.76 sec; 10.22 sec.; 6.4 (no, I did not reverse these)

I cannot compare them to a native install under either Windows operating system, because I do not have a Windows install.

I AM impressed. VMware Player was easy to install from the repositories, the price is right (free as in $$), and with Tools installed on the Win 2000 guest I can copy and paste text into OpenOffice running in Linux. I don't know how much of the speed increase is Player or Mepis 6.0 (it does seem noticeably fasted and boots in almost half the time as my previous version).

Just thought some of you might like to know.

[jfalter0]

Is anybody running BW7 on Fedora Core 6? I had BW6 running on Fedora Core 5, but I did a fresh install with BW7 and FC6 and now cannot make it run. It starts up, then I get the error/shutdown message mentioned in other notes. I am not sure what I have done wrong. I also cannot get BW6 to install anymore. I have tried to download any updates on the BW website, but the wine installation says I don't have ie installed (though I have done so) and the Crossover installation says ie is installed (but I don't find it).I have tried installing and running using both wine (0.9.27) and Crossover Office 6 (RC 2).

Running
Fedora Core 6 (kernel version 2.6.18-1.2868)
Gnome 2.16
Wine 0.9.27 or
Crossover Office 6 RC 2 with wine 0.9.15

BW is one of only three Windows apps that I need. I also use Logos (for BAR, ABD, and miscellaneous other reference works) and FolioViews (for the New Interpreter's Bible). I am finding it so frustrating that I cannot get BW7 working.

I wish the folks at BibleWorks would work with Codeweavers to port BW to Linux and Mac using the wine libraries. I would think the work wouldn't be that significant in order to open up new markets.

[united_by_truth]

I understand that what you request would be ideal, but if you have a valid Windows license you can accomplish all you want with VMware Player or Server. Both are free as in $$$. For me I prefer Player. It acts like another window and I can cut and paste text into Linux apps, such as OpenOffice. I run BW7, Libronix Digital Library System which is Logos based (or is it visa versa), PageMaker (for legacy documents), e-Sword (I also run BibleTime), and MS Streets & Trips (I haven't found a Linux equivalent).

[meldridge2000]

I don't know if this would be helpful for newer versions of BibleWorks, but this is what I did with v5. With an earlier version of Wine, the installation was seemless. When Wine was updated to 0.9.29 the installation got messy, but it works. Unfortunately, you only get one chance. After that, the BW setup program will not run. I imagine there is something you can delete to get it to run, but I couldn't find it.

I also could not get BW to run until I allowed the installer to create a desktop icon. The new Wine works its magic, and creates a launcher icon on the Linux desktop. There are multiple error messages during the install that make it seem like it is not going to install or work, but it did. I can now lauch from the icon. The program also saves settings between sessions, which did not work with an earlier version (maybe two years ago) of Wine.

I cannot add any new bible versions, since this involves running the setup a second time. If you have space, I suggest installing all the translations you could ever want during the first installation.

-Michael Eldridge
-San Jose, CA

[tcblack]

Just finished installing Gentoo on my laptop. (Yay it works great! except for the sound).
Using Wine 0.9.30 I've installed and run Bibleworks 7 including all updates and so forth.
At the moment I've only got one problem:
On loading and exiting I get a dialog that says
the file [unnamed] has been modified do you want to save it?
Yes I can keep clicking No and just go on, but there has to be a way to stop that. Any hints?

[dhave]

I'm a die-hard Linux user (Gentoo and Slackware), and I get good results using BibleWorks with VMWare emulating Windows. My only installation CD for Windows is Windows 2000, but it runs beautifully and responsively under VMWare. Because VMWare integrates so nicely into the host Linux system, it's very easy to transfer text files that I generate while using BW to a directory (folder) where I can access them using my Linux apps.

The only drawback here is cost, as VMWare is quite expensive. I was able to qualify for a steep educational discount a few years ago. It may be that the free VMWare Player will do the job, too. There are also other operating system emulators and virtual machine apps that could be good: Win4Lin (commercial), Parallels (commercial but much less expensive than VMWare), QEMU (free, open-source).

Though I have used Wine for some Windows apps, I haven't done so with BW.

[united_by_truth]

dhave, you are exactly correct, at least according to my experience. VMware Player works great (see posts #83 & #85 above) and with www.easyvmx.com (http://www.easyvmx.com) the virtual machine can be built easily and for free. I run Mepis and everything needed is easily installed from the repositories. I don't see why every Linux user who needs Windows programs doesn't use it since a valid Windows license is probably a part of most computer purchases.

[tcblack]

The problem is I used the Windows license for another computer and this laptop has no license so I'm trying to make the best of it. WINE does a really good job of answering some of the questions but I can't legally use QEMU or VMWARE without a valid-unused Windows license to run them on.

<sigh>
The age of Linux will continue to be held off for as long as programs that people use remain locked to Microsoft.
</sigh>

[amiga_os]

Hi, I moved to Ubuntu Dapper last summer, and have since upgraded to Edgy. I've been using Bible Works 6 for over a year now, and would really like to use it in Ubuntu... however, the installation gets to 100% under Wine, when it says "Setting up Bible Works as an automated server" and then fails with some kind of exception (an 8-byte Hex number).

I've searched the forums, and it's great to see that BW7 works for people in Ubuntu, but I can't afford to upgrade. Has anyone come across this problem before, is there any way around it? It's a shame the whole installation process works, but fails at the very end (and before you ask, no, I can't find the executable under ~/.wine/c/Program Files/BibleWorks to test it anyway).

If anyone can help I'll be very grateful!

btw... I've cross posted this from another thread - ONLY because I thought it would make more sense to add to this thread. Please delete the other thread and forgive me - I don't usually do this on forums!

[dhave]

Just finished installing Gentoo on my laptop. (Yay it works great! except for the sound).
Using Wine 0.9.30 I've installed and run Bibleworks 7 including all updates and so forth.
At the moment I've only got one problem:
On loading and exiting I get a dialog that says

Yes I can keep clicking No and just go on, but there has to be a way to stop that. Any hints?
I'm testing BW7 on CxOffice 6; my system runs Gentoo. Thanks to this thread I learned that I needed to install IE6 first, which permitted me to install BW7.

I'm getting the shutdown error you mention above. If you learn of a fix, please let me know.

Perhaps more annoying for me is the fact that I can't seem to complete an update after installation. All seems to go fine until reboot, when there's an error that keeps the installation from completing. The error message says to try the update again, which I've now done three times, to no avail.

Any ideas, anyone? Otherwise, I'm happy to get BW installed and launching, despite these glitches.

Thanks.

[united_by_truth]

I have recently decided to explore unicode (yes, I am behind the times). In KDE I can select the Greek keyboard and even select polytonic as a kb variant. I have installed Cardo and Gentium unicode fonts, however I am not able to type accents, breathings, subscript iotas. It seems in Windows one has to install a special kb. Any guidance for unicode Greek and Hebrew in Linux? I looked at Decker's old page and he mentioned im-classicalgreek from sourceforge that uses GTK2. My distro is KDE based and does not install GTK2. Thanks in advance.

[hubmair]

I am using Ubuntu 7.10, well actually I am using Kubuntu, I don't like the gnome interface. With the release of 7.10, Viritualbox was made available. I could never get VMServer to work. Virtualbox works, I have XP running and was able to load and run WordPerfect 12.

When i tried to install BW7 on it, it will not accept the second install disk. I am really doing this to learn about Linux and viritualization. I don't understand it well enough to get a handle on why the first disk will work but the install program cannot find the second disk. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Oh, I am running this on a PIII with 384 mgs of ram.

[dpeloquin]

I'm a Unix system admin (Solaris, AIX, HPUX, a little Linux - CentOS, RedHat, and now Ubuntu). I will be implementing at least one of the solutions mentioned in this thread as I am also moving from MS to Ubuntu 7.10. Just ordered a PC built on Ubuntu 7.04 from Dell.

I see here four options for getting BW7 working on my new PC:
A) Wine - works but some issues.
B) VMWare (Server / Player) - works but slower.
C) Cross-Over Office - works but not officially supported by vendor.
D) Virtualbox - can't get past disk 1 :eek:.

So, here are my questions as I make this jump.
1) Is my summary correct? Did I leave any working options out?
2) Is there a consensus of what really FULLY works?
3) What are the gotchas to avoid?

I'm willing to test it, document it, and post the solution :D, BUT I don't want to waste my precious time on something that really doesn't work :mad:. Thanks

[united_by_truth]

B) VMWare (Server / Player) - works but slower.

2) Is there a consensus of what really FULLY works?

Wow! I see this all the time, so it must be true, but for me it is unnoticeable and I am not using fast hardware. See post #89. I have used VMware Player quite satisfactorily for quite a while now. It is easy to install in Mepis, but that should not be an issue for you. (I am a non-geek) Several on the Mepis forum rave about Virtual Box and how much better than VMware it is. I have not tried it because I am quite happy. I was surprised to see you had trouble with it. Anyway that is my experience and I doubt there is a consensus.

[ubuntu_user]

I'm a Unix system admin (Solaris, AIX, HPUX, a little Linux - CentOS, RedHat, and now Ubuntu). I will be implementing at least one of the solutions mentioned in this thread as I am also moving from MS to Ubuntu 7.10. Just ordered a PC built on Ubuntu 7.04 from Dell.

I see here four options for getting BW7 working on my new PC:
A) Wine - works but some issues.
B) VMWare (Server / Player) - works but slower.
C) Cross-Over Office - works but not officially supported by vendor.
D) Virtualbox - can't get past disk 1 :eek:.

So, here are my questions as I make this jump.
1) Is my summary correct? Did I leave any working options out?
2) Is there a consensus of what really FULLY works?
3) What are the gotchas to avoid?

I'm willing to test it, document it, and post the solution :D, BUT I don't want to waste my precious time on something that really doesn't work :mad:. Thanks

1) I've had the same results for A,B,C. I never used D.
2) As far as what really works...
a. Run on XP or Vista... of course since it is native to the OS
b. Buy a Mac(Intel) and run Parallels... I have it and love it. BW runs faster than my Vista machine (2GB RAM AMD 3200)
c. You can run Ubuntu on the Mac for your other apps. Don't waste money on Crossover for BW except if it's your only option on Linux. I tried it and, at best, it was acceptable but not as smooth as Native Windoze or Mac w/ Parallels.

Summary:
Mac is now a one stop OS for all Windoze and Linux apps. Bibleworks runs faster on a Mac.
Don't waste money on Vista or a Vista machine.
IMHO

[hubmair]

I'm a Unix system admin (Solaris, AIX, HPUX, a little Linux - CentOS, RedHat, and now Ubuntu). I will be implementing at least one of the solutions mentioned in this thread as I am also moving from MS to Ubuntu 7.10. Just ordered a PC built on Ubuntu 7.04 from Dell.

I see here four options for getting BW7 working on my new PC:
A) Wine - works but some issues.
B) VMWare (Server / Player) - works but slower.
C) Cross-Over Office - works but not officially supported by vendor.
D) Virtualbox - can't get past disk 1 :eek:.

So, here are my questions as I make this jump.
1) Is my summary correct? Did I leave any working options out?
2) Is there a consensus of what really FULLY works?
3) What are the gotchas to avoid?

I'm willing to test it, document it, and post the solution :D, BUT I don't want to waste my precious time on something that really doesn't work :mad:. Thanks

From what I have seen, wine has its limitations. I can't get VMware to work, cross-over Office works with MS Office but not well with anything else. And so far I can't get past the first disk in virtualbox. Finally I cannot see why anyone would want to go to the expense of a Mac + a legit copy of XP. Now if Mac OS was ported to widnows boxes and sold at at a reasonable price, you might havea universal OS.

[ubuntu_user]

Finally I cannot see why anyone would want to go to the expense of a Mac + a legit copy of XP


This issue is not why someone would buy a Mac + XP. The issue is how to solve running BW on other OS's.
First, it's designed for Windoze ONLY. It does not have the flexibility to run on other OS's natively. So Windoze is the first choice w/o hassels.
Second ...IF one does not have or want to run it on Windoze... The MAC OSX with Parallels is the next choice (I have not tried Fusion).
Third... in my experience Linux or Mac OSX (5.1) running Crossover Office did not do well.

Summary: If you like Windoze... stick with it. If you like Mac, you have the ability to run BW as good if not better than Windoze. If you like Linux... BW runs ok.

The most flexible choice is a MAC... one computer covers all bases.

Your ... I cannot see why anyone would want to go to the expense of a Mac + a legit copy of XP ... is due to what you like rather than what you know.

[dpeloquin]

OK. Thanks for the input. I guess that I get to play...
I'll report back what I find. If anyone can give particulars on the problems that they have seen with the ABCD options (e.g., I opened this, clicked this, entered this, etc.), then I'll see if I can find a solution for you in my travels.

BTW - I love the Windoze spelling :D.

Windoze, it's not an OS, it's a sub-strait for growing viruses.
Hmmmm - is my Unix slant showing?

[mwPaul]

OK. Thanks for the input. I guess that I get to play...
I'll report back what I find. If anyone can give particulars on the problems that they have seen with the ABCD options (e.g., I opened this, clicked this, entered this, etc.), then I'll see if I can find a solution for you in my travels.

BTW - I love the Windoze spelling :D.

Windoze, it's not an OS, it's a sub-strait for growing viruses.
Hmmmm - is my Unix slant showing?

Hi DPeloquin, I would be really interested in what you found, please ket us know.

Thanks

[dhave]

BW7 runs just fine under VMware Workstation for Linux 6.x. My guest OS is WinXP Pro. I also sometimes dual-boot into "real" Windows XP Pro, and on my system there's no performance difference between BW7 on VMware (with Windows as guest) vs. BW7 on Windows.

[mwPaul]

Thanks dvave. I don't have a windows license, so I'm mostly interested in emulation like Wine and CrossOver. From what I've been reading here, bw7 works with them with only one minor issue, a popup message at start/shutdown. Can anybody confirm that this is the only problem and otherwise everything works fine?

[frankschutz]

Hi, I just joined the forums primarily for this section on Linux. I have been with BW since version 4 and first began (trying) to run it on Linux since version 5. It was at version 6 that I got it to work pretty well with Crossover Office and then with Wine by itself. That is when I gleefully put Windoze behind me for good, except at work where I support it - I'm in IT to make a living.

Anyway, I just upgraded to BW7 and installed it, so far everything works fine. I did not receive any error on starting it. The only glitches I have seen so far, are the two I have always had in Wine - when scrolling back in displayed text, the newly visible text is garbled. All it takes is to select some of the text, minimize and restore, or just about anything to force a screen rewrite and it is good. I can live with that. And the second is when resizing a screen, it lags and looks funny while it tries to catch up, but works.

I am running openSUSE 10.3 (which I love) and wine version 0.9.53.

I hope this helps!

Frank

[frankschutz]

VMWare is great, but i find VirtualBox to be much easier to work with. There are 2 versions - an OSS (Open Source) version and a proprietary version that is free for personal use. I have run BW 6 perfectly under it on openSUSE with a Vista guest OS. I have not tried BW 7 - I prefer not going into Vista! The only reason I have it at all is for WordPerfect X3. WordPerfect is by far the best WP out there and I have not been able to get X3 to run under Wine. But most of the time I just use WordPerfect 12 in Wine and leave Vista (and any Windoze) alone!

Cheers

Frank

[united_by_truth]

For those who use virtualization, I agree with Frank. I thought VMware Player was outstanding and it is good, but I started playing with VirtualBox about Christmas time and now I find I never use VMware Player. VB was easy to set up and configure, has a detailed manual, and I really like the seamless windows. My host is Mepis 6.5 on my laptop and 7.0 at the office and my guest is Win 2000. I am using BW 7. The laptop is a secondhand 7 or 8 year old Dell 1.0 GHz processor with 512MB Ram max. I split the RAM 256/256 and everything runs fine.

Actually I started with VB on the laptop. I just cloned my virtual hard disk and sent the clone to my desktop and vola! a full blown working install with BibleWorks, Libronix Theological Journals, and all!

[united_by_truth]

Frank, I couldn't help but finding your WP comments interesting. Apparently I am not a WP connoisseur and I realize that there is a lot of personal preference and familiarity issues in this area, but what do you see as major drawbacks to OpenOffice? Especially since you do not normally run virtualization.

[frankschutz]

Hi UBT,

I like that moniker!

Well, I don't have a lot of time right now, but here are a few things. There are a lot of little features in WordPerfect that really make working in it a pleasure rather than a chore as in virtually all other WP's. For example, you are writing along and you want to center one line of text. In OOO you simply grab the mouse and click the appropriate button. Hit enter and grab the mouse again and hit the right aligned button. Not bad, but in WP, in a fraction of the time and effort, I just hit F7 type text and hit enter (it reverts back to right aligned at the enter key.

Or say you are writing up a bulletin and you type "Scripture reference" and now you want the actual reference to be left aligned and why not have dot connecting the 2 ends of text. In OOO you have to set a tab (and maybe clear all other tabs) and you have to change the tab to left align with dot leaders. Oh . . . be carful not to get that tab too close to the left margin! I call that a bit, not a big, but a bit of a pain. In WP, I just type "Scripture reference" and hit ALT+F7 twice, hit tab and type the reference -- all done.

Now you are in a footer and you want to have the Scripture reference on the right, the date in the center and the page number on the right (my sermon notes). In 000 you . . . whew . . . tabs! you get the idea. In WP I type the Scripture reference hit ALT+F7 and type the date (or insert with Ctrl+D) hit F7 and put in the auto page numbering of choice.

One other real problem I have is that I do my sermon notes as half sheets. In OOO I have to use columns on landscape and it works ok, but then when I try to put page numbers in a footer . . . I have not found a way for it to count pages by columns! I have googled and searched and asked people (Word has the same problem) and I have not found a way to do it. If you can, let me know. In WP I just use landscape and subdivide the page with 2 columns - done!

Just a few examples. Don't get me started on "sections!"

Well, gotta go back to work . . .

[frankschutz]

OOPS! I just reread my post and realized I reversed the ALT+F7 and the F7 in the 3rd paragraph.

[ingosorke]

. . . and those Reveal Codes in WP, oh those Reveal Codes (alt F3). Makes editing so much easier and precise (esp. with biblical languages and accents).
Web page rendering is better in Word and OOo though.
And I'm afraid for WP's future; read somewhere that market share for word processing has dropped below 10%.

Ingo

[frankschutz]

Sorry to be off topic . . . but Just a quick reply. Yes, reveal codes is a wonderful tool! It also reveals :D a very important advantage of WordPerfect. It has a structure that allows for reveal codes. Neither Word nor OOO does. They use a paragraph formatting where the formatting codes are attached to the paragraph markers. (Word does and I assume ooo does because it seems to format the same way) WordPerfect has a much simpler and more flexible design which works more like html code.

Any way, I don't know the recent market share for WP, but I have been hearing these concerns for years. And yes, it is a concern, but to keep it in perspective: first, as much as I love it, its a product. If it dies, I use something else. I already use ooo most of the time (also abiword and textmaker etc.) because they run native on Linux and I have given up any hope that WP will bring back their Linux version.

Second, The Mac has had a tremendous market share growth over the last two years, they have doubled their market share which is now up to about 7% That is back to where it was in the early 90's. I wouldn't count WP out yet!

Frank

[united_by_truth]

OK, I took the plunge and tried wine 0.9.56.

PageMaker, which would not work in an earlier version of wine seems OK so far except I cannot paste from the clipboard.

I got BW7 installed and It seems OK the little I have played with it (no button bar, editor, or user notes). However I am having trouble with unlocked modules BDAG & HALOT. I have run the module disk set up and they appear to unlock and install, but they are not accessible when I restart BibleWorks. I have run unlock from the File menu as well. I have run repair and unlock again.

Any thoughts? Is anyone successful unlocking these under wine?

[frankschutz]

BW 6 worked fine in wine for me and when I first installed 7 it appeared to be working the same way. I do not have any modules to unlock, so I can't help there, but I am having more problems. The problems I have had seem to be due to the fact that 7 is much more internet aware and enabled. Most applications access the internet fine in wine, but for some reason, even though I have IE 6 installed, BW 7 will not see it and so I cannot do updates and other misc. problems. I will probably keep looking for an answer, but I don't have much time right now. In the meantime, I will get it installed in Virtualbox, which is probably the best solution, except that it requires Windoze!

Frank

[united_by_truth]

I have the same problem not being able to access the internet for updates. Since I couldn't unlock my HALOT & BDAG I quit messing with it. However, I just installed wine_0.9.58-1. I still can't update from the web or unlock HALOT or BDAG, BUT since this version of wine is based on XP I can now copy Hebrew Unicode text and paste in OpenOffice!!! This is a major plus for me and I will keep my wine version of BW just for this. I don't have a license for Win XP, so all I could export as Unicode was Greek under my Win 2000 license.

[71CH]

Hi all
I just wanted to say that I have successfully installed BW7 on Ubuntu 7.10
I used crossover office pro 6.2 instead of wine
You also have to install DCOM98 before you install BW7
I would love to help others with this but keep in mind that I'm not really all that linux savvy and got pretty lucky with this install

[united_by_truth]

71CH,

Do you have everything working? Editor, button bar, user notes, synopsis window, help, etc.? I do have updating from the web working, but I am having problems with some downloaded databases, such as K&D, showing not to be unlocked.

[Hugh]

I bought a new Dell laptop with Ubuntu 7.10 pre-installed as the only OS. I've tried to get BW7 running several ways. Under Wine, it installed OK, but is very buggy and unstable. I downloaded Codeweavers Crossover and tried again. It's up and running, but with the same bugs that others here have reported: The button bar is blank, the update feature can't find Explorer, and on exiting, it wants to save an un-named note file that I never opened.

I've also downloaded VMware Server and Player versions. Server is up and running, but my copy of Windoze XP won't install. Server keeps reporting that it can't find an OS on the install disc. I can't figure out how to install VMware Player, although I successfully downloaded all the files. As a last resort, I might try dual-booting, but I don't know how to do that from a Linux-only machine.

71CH, how did you install DCOM98 into Crossover, and how did you know that you needed it? Does BW7 run with full functionality?

I'm a Linux newbie. Can any of you experiencied users point me toward documentation for tweaking Wine and Crossover, or installing and using a VM, or dual-booting?

[wezlo]

I sounds like you're using a restore disk to do the XP install and VM ware is telling you that there is no install disk in the drive. If you are trying to do this install with a copy of XP that you're no longer using on another machine, google "making an install disk from the i386 directory" and you'll find howto's on making an actual Windows XP install disk.

Restore disks are evil.

[united_by_truth]

Hugh, I am a user, not a techie and I know things can be real confusing and frustrating at first. Wezlo knows his stuff, but I might also suggest using VirtualBox. I used VMware Server and Player for over a year and was only going to "play" with VirtualBox. After a couple of days I never went back. It is easier to set up and create than VMware. I use Mepis, not Ubuntu, so some things may differ. VB is in the repositories.

Also I have BW 7 installed in Wine 0.9.59-1_i386.deb. This version seemed to help some things. I also ran WineTricks (http://kegel.com/wine/winetricks) to install DCOM98. See here for explanation http://wiki.winehq.org/winetricks.
It seems like I did something else, but I don't remember... (note to self: write everything down). Anyway I use BW in Wine for quick reference and for exporting Unicode Greek and Hebrew by cut and paste. I use BW in VirtualBox for my study sessions.

EDIT: Ah, yes, I installed fakeie6 with winetricks. I can now connect to the net and see updates and download then, but I am not sure BW is installing them. I think I just copied the latest stuff into my wine install from my VB install.

[Hugh]

If at first you don't succeed......

Previously, I got VMware Server up and running, but it wouldn't recognize my Windoze XP install disc. Yesterday I tried again and XP installed just fine. Then I decided to try VirtualBox instead. Windoze installed fine, but then it wouldn't install BW7. This morning I tried again and BW installed and ran without a hitch! I now have two installs of BW7 on my Ubuntu 7.10 machine. A crippled version runs under Crossover, with no button bar and no update capability, but otherwise functional. A fully capable version is running under VirtualBox. I also reinstalled the latest version of Wine and ran Winetricks with the dcom98 and fakeie6 patches, but I can't install BW because Crossover tries to hijack the install. Maybe I'll get rid of Crossover and try again.

BW is the only Windoze program I can't live without, so I really wish they could make it fully functional under Wine or Crossover or better yet port it to Linux. I first played with Linux a dozen years ago, but the early distros were too hard to use. The latest stuff is mature enough that there's no reason to endure the Redmond Refuse any longer.... except for a few specialized programs like BW!

[frankschutz]

Hugh,

I am in the same boat as you. Only BW and WordPerfect are indispensable for me and I tried both Wine and the latest Crossover. I was able to get both programs working in their previous versions, but could not get them fully functional now.

I would prefer not to use Windoze at all, but for now Windoze under Virtualbox is the only functional solution. I love Virtualbox and use it to test and try new versions of many distros, so having one VM for Vista is not too big a deal, except I have to boot into it. However, Virtualbox's seamless mode makes it seem like your running under Linux.

Oh well, maybe we will get a linux version some day!

[MrShep]

I must say that IMHO the best reason to use linux is for the "freedom" from operating system lockin and obsolesence. Microsoft will eventually walk away from WinXP. They're already reportedly saying that they will no longer support the .avi format. So what if you have been storing ALL of your videos in that format--"sorry charlie".

Another reason is simply because myself and many others are thinking about the "long term" storage of our digital files. The National Archives of America, Library of Congress, and many other agencies in several countries are trying to find the best way to preserve digital content for future generations. When we create a file today it may not be viewable by our grandchildren, or great grandchildren.

Even the BibleWorks programmers responsibly tell us not to put our full trust in the digital formats of our generation. ref: http://store.bibleworks.com/modules.html

Another ref: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/industry/4201645.html

These honest and thought provoking documents give light to our current technological dilema.

A study on longterm digital archiving shows that governments, societies, businesses, all of us should be using file formats that are Open and non-proprietary if we want the files to be viewable in the future. The research also shows that Open Source is the best choice for longevity largely due to freedom from proprietary lockin. For example, OpenOffice.org produces files in an ISO standard. The ISO standards body has approved their format for international document generation. --gee, maybe I'll go use Microsoft so I can guarantee myself another upgrade fee when their next whiz bang product comes out. I now have so many products to upgrade it's insane. BibleWorks alone is almost the cost of a low end computer.

I sincerely hope that the BibleWorks developers will stand by their convictions and give us a product designed to operate on any platform. I would gladly pay for such an awesome product. Just get away from using the Microsoft dependent components.

Please. Please. Please. At least develop BibleWorks using portable code--easily compiled for the worlds most popular OS's. (especially linux). ;)

Please.

[MrShep]

Thanks to the forum for the assist with getting BW 7.0 installed in Linux. I finally got everything running under Kubuntu 8.04 which comes loaded with Wine pre-installed.

Good info from Wezlo on fonts...and getting the updates to work.

Thanks!!
http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2952

Every thing seems to be functioning except for the Microsoft dependent components--Menu icons, Editor, .chm files, otherwise the dialogs (browse window, analy