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ugotdave
01-24-2005, 04:51 PM
Has anyone ever attempted to compile a bible version with two different kinds of "FONTS" within the same version?



i.e. I have a version of Matthew that has been meticulously translated form the du Tillet Hebrew Manuscripts, and it incorporates two types of fonts, English & (Palaeo) Hebrew; but when I compile it the Hebrew font is replaced with the English font.



Is it possible to achieve this using the BW compiler?



Thank you



David Morris

Michael Hanel
01-24-2005, 05:59 PM
I'm speaking from my head here, so someone will either have to try it out or correct me. Go to the Help section in the BW program under "Compiling Versions Databases" and go to section 3c. Is it possible to compile the text in english and have your hebrew sections enclosed by <h> </h>? That's my only guess. Otherwise if you compile something in a non-latin language (i.e. Hebrew font or Greek font) it is not possible to have that text contain anything which is not Hebrew or Greek respectively. Maybe this is something that would be changed later, but not necessarily since the Version Database Compiler is more like a Christmas goody than a part of the program that they work extra hard to make sure it works for users. In other words, it wasn't necessarily meant for what you're trying to make it do unfortunately....

mike

Mark Langley
01-24-2005, 09:49 PM
I have worked with a text in which I was using New Times Roman as the main font and then because certain letters were not found within that font that I needed so I used Word's Insert|symbol option. The compiler worked as far as creating the text but BW failed to recognize certain symbols when I would do word counts, searches, and etc.

ugotdave
01-24-2005, 10:44 PM
Thank you two very much for your input. :)

Michael, I tried the SGML tags, it worked great for end notes, but unfortunately did nothing for the main text. I will keep trying though. I think your right, I am pushing the compiler to its limits!

Mark I will test the symbol option, was this MS Word you did this in?

Thank you

David Morris

Mark Langley
01-24-2005, 10:54 PM
Thank you two very much for your input. :)

Michael, I tried the SGML tags, it worked great for end notes, but unfortunately did nothing for the main text. I will keep trying though. I think your right, I am pushing the compiler to its limits!

Mark I will test the symbol option, was this MS Word you did this in?

Thank you

David Morris

Yes, David, it was.

I would be interested on it turns out for you.

jdarlack
01-25-2005, 07:57 AM
I have done quite a bit of experimenting with BW, trying to push the limits a bit. I have found some interesting accidental allowances, but I have also found that the Version Database Compiler will not handle characters beyond the Extended Latin character set (the first two charts on this page: http://www.unicode.org/charts/)

This is why, for instance, a transliteration of the Greek text is not possible using MACRONS instead of CIRCUMFLEXES to distinguish ETA's and OMEGA's from EPSILON's and OMICRON's.

One possible workaround would be to come up with a basic but literal transliteration scheme like CCAT Hebrew (http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur/translit.txt). And then compile it. If you wanted, then you could "footnote" each transliteration and then put Hebrew text in a Hebrew font in Auto Info Window.

I know that this can be a pain, and I have talked in the past to the folks at BW. The bottom line is that for the VDC to be Unicode capable, or multi-font capable, many aspects of the program would have to be manipulated (some very unpredictably), so it would take a major change!

jdarlack
01-25-2005, 08:15 AM
I have done quite a bit of experimenting with BW, trying to push the limits a bit.

In case you'd like to experiment as well:

This is a version I put together with one character on each verse, compiled in English. If you like, you could duplicate the txt file and rename the duplicate files and compile them in Greek and Hebrew to see what characters show up in the program when compiled in different languages.

Neither I, nor BibleWorks is responsible for any problems or bugs with this database. It is, after all an "experiment." USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

http://oldinthenew.org/bibleworks/ent.zip

From this, you should see what characters will and will not compile.

ugotdave
01-25-2005, 02:13 PM
Jim

I will give it a try, but I think BW will fall short. On the flip side I think it is great that BW would even give a user the ability to try this!

Thanks for all your help Jim.

David Morris

Michael Hanel
01-25-2005, 05:49 PM
It definitely was a good leap of faith BW took when they decided to keep the VDC in the program available for users and not leave it just for themselves programming. It offers a lot of flexibility and users have definitely pushed the limits of it, which in my mind has been a good thing. The danger from their point of view is that bibleworks was that it could get into copyright issues, but i think users have been rather responsible about using it. Also since BW was built from the ground up around ease of use, functionality and powefulness (send an english major through this email :(), their biggest concern wasnt how users could compile multi-language or unicode texts. So when we want it to do things that they didn't plan for it to do, we run into problems. But I think the rewards are huge to pester the BW programmers (in good ways of course!) if you think the VDC is worthwhile and want to push its limits a little farther. For instance there's a host of other greek documents I'd compile if there were more options for formatting the text and I think these additions are ultimately useful to Bibleworks users by expanding their range of Greek to draw upon. BibleWorks isn't TLG or anything like that, but if there are public domain texts and they are at all relevant to Biblical exegesis, well then heck, why not put them on board. Also in the future for enterprising young minds, they could be morph coded just like BNM etc and that would again expand Biblical exegetes' pool of knowledge. More information is not a bad thing at all as long as it is functional, in my opinion

Mike Hanel
MDiv Student Concordia Seminary
MA Classics Student Washington University

MBushell
01-26-2005, 11:30 AM
Hi Michael,

We certainly do intend to do more development of the VDC and eventual support for Unicode is part of the plan. It is unlikely that this will be in the next release though. When you see the next release you will understand why. We are very busy working on a long list of items. We will have Greek and hebrew unicode export, but VDC support will likely come later. This could change of course if a section of time opens up to work on it. I do want to assure all of you that we remain comitted to serving the needs of our users and that we will address this particular need in due course, as the Lord enables.

God bless,
Mike

jdarlack
01-26-2005, 11:38 AM
You're the best Mike!

We'll continue to pester you though!

Gontroppo
01-28-2005, 12:46 AM
What would I need to do to get the Wyclif bible from http://www.sbible.boom.ru/wyc/wycle.htm to compile a text file for Bibleworks, please?

Or does someone already have a file, please?

Would I then need to create a ddf, or does the version database compiler do that?

Thanks.
If you get a chance, watch at least the episode of Melvin Bragg's The adventrue of Englsih which traces the history of the Englsih bible from Wyclif, through Tyndale to the King James. Terrific program, I thought.
David McKay
www.davidmckay.info (http://www.davidmckay.info)

Mark Langley
01-28-2005, 12:54 AM
Hi David,

I am not sure if someone has ready the Wycliff version, but if you want to do so, you will have to a text file of the version with the references and once that is completed you use the VDC to create the ddf.

If have BW 6.0, the manual is pretty straight forward. See page 303ff. Page 304 gives you steps as to how to create the text file for the version.
Hope this helps.

Mark Langley
01-28-2005, 01:03 AM
Hi David,

For making the text file it will have to look like this (this is from John):

Joh 1:1 In the bigynnyng was the word, and the word was at God...
Joh 1:2 This was in the bigynnyng at God.
Joh 1:3 Alle thingis weren maad bi hym, and withouten hym was...

Of course all the Bible you want included will have to be done this way.

So, you will have to get the verses from the www site and then add the references. After that just follow the directions in the manual. Hopefully someone has created the text file, if not...