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Michael Hanel
01-06-2005, 09:07 PM
I've been working on putting together a database of the Greek texts by Homer and Hesiod and now it's done! Granted it still will need some editing and tweaking, but all the right stuff should be in place for editing.

Keep in mind that the database is Greek only and there is no morphology provided. It's not for everybody, but for the Greek nerds, it's kind of nice. It's no replacement for Perseus or the Chicago Homer project, but it's Homer and Hesiod in BibleWorks, at your fingertips.

When you find any major problems with it, let me know, I'll try to keep the text as accurate as possible.

Oh, the database is accessible here (http://www.cune.org/michael.hanel/hhg.zip).

Mike Hanel
MA Classics Student Washington University
MDiv Student Concordia Seminary

Gilbert Salinas
01-07-2005, 01:40 PM
Hi Mike!

My BW6 crashes when I attempt to compile the database!!!

Any suggestions???

Gilbert

Gilbert Salinas
01-07-2005, 02:00 PM
I solved the problem. The file looks for hhg in a sub directory instead of the userdatabase directory!

Sorry!

Gilbert

Joe Fleener
01-07-2005, 04:57 PM
I had the same problem, but no more.

Thanks

Michael Hanel
01-07-2005, 05:51 PM
Sorry for the confusion. I know I made it a little more complicated but I swear the readme file should have made my complication clearer :p
my userdb folder was getting crowded, i found it helpful to make subdirectories, sorry you're all going to have to deal w my hyper-organization :)

mike

Michael Hanel
01-12-2005, 12:49 AM
I just posted an update to the Homer and Hesiod Greek database. You might not notice a lot of difference but it sure was time consuming! :) Basically I converted the raw text into CCAT format so that is what you'll be compiling. There were too many weird errors when the text was done in BWGrkl, so I just decided to forgo that. In CCAT format the elision problem is fixed, but it didn't make accent sensitive searching work. Not sure what will fix that....

Anyway, this (http://www.cune.org/michael.hanel/hhg.zip) is the better version, but the old version still is available here (http://www.cune.org/michael.hanel/hhg10.zip). All the files are updated, so if you are reinstalling to the same place, be sure to overwrite with this version.

This will probably be the last update for a while. With school starting back up, I'll likely have less free time. But if you find any mistakes, want to fix something, etc. let me know!

Mike Hanel

MBushell
01-13-2005, 12:17 PM
Hi Michael,
Unfortunately the VDC does not produce the extra files needed for accent-sensitive searching. The need for it has been sufficiently small that we just haven't gotten around to it. After the shakedown is over for the base files I'd be happy to produce an accent-sensitive version and return it to you.
Mike

Michael Hanel
01-13-2005, 12:27 PM
Excellent. I'll keep making my way through the text to make sure it's totally clean then. I suppose it makes sense that accent sensitive searching isn't magically done, but the program did everything else so easy, i figured what the heck :)

Mike

doulosChristou
01-25-2005, 07:22 PM
Mike,


Thanks for your work! This is an excellent resource. I've found no problems at all with the text so far. With the new built-in links to Perseus, this for me is much better than working with Perseus' text in a browser. I'd like to see more classics for BW. Aeschylus' Oresteia, for instance. Good work.

Greg

Michael Hanel
01-25-2005, 08:04 PM
Thanks for the feedback Greg! I'm glad this is appreciated. My first task was going to be to run through all of this database and compare it with print edition of the critical editions and make sure everything is accurate. After that I can certainly add new additions.

I'm also glad the morph browser linking works for you. Occasionally I've found it won't recognize words, but by and large, the BW addition of this is oh so helpful :)

If you or anyone else wants to add Greek texts, all you need to do is find a source that is public domain and convert from unicode to CCAT (or BwGrk, but I've found CCAT works much smoother). Actually in my next phase I was going to do the Greek dramatists Aeschylus, Euripides, Sophocles and Aristophanes. These texts should compile very easily because their standard form is line by line. This makes it much easier than say Plato which is properly divided by Stephanus page number and I haven't figured out a way that would be user-friendly to even consider doing these, so dramatists is def something that is on the horizon, even if it's longterm for myself. If anyone else picks up though, definitely let the forum know so people don't duplicate work :)

Mike

tdavis2k
01-31-2005, 05:14 PM
I'm using BW 5 and not able to compile your work. I downloaded the most recent BW EXE (or thought so) and am still unable to compile due to maximum size exceeded errors. Are you aware of any EXE's for BW 5 that will fiix the problem?
TIA,
Tim

Joe Fleener
01-31-2005, 05:50 PM
This was a fix that Mike made for 6.0. You could send a request to BW support to see if they can apply this same fix to 5.0

doulosChristou
03-21-2005, 02:43 PM
Thanks for the feedback Greg! I'm glad this is appreciated. My first task was going to be to run through all of this database and compare it with print edition of the critical editions and make sure everything is accurate. After that I can certainly add new additions.

I'm also glad the morph browser linking works for you. Occasionally I've found it won't recognize words, but by and large, the BW addition of this is oh so helpful :)

If you or anyone else wants to add Greek texts, all you need to do is find a source that is public domain and convert from unicode to CCAT (or BwGrk, but I've found CCAT works much smoother). Actually in my next phase I was going to do the Greek dramatists Aeschylus, Euripides, Sophocles and Aristophanes. These texts should compile very easily because their standard form is line by line. This makes it much easier than say Plato which is properly divided by Stephanus page number and I haven't figured out a way that would be user-friendly to even consider doing these, so dramatists is def something that is on the horizon, even if it's longterm for myself. If anyone else picks up though, definitely let the forum know so people don't duplicate work :)

Mike

Just FYI. I've taken advantage of a post mid-term lull by beginning work on Aeschylus' plays.

Michael Hanel
03-21-2005, 06:28 PM
Just FYI. I've taken advantage of a post mid-term lull by beginning work on Aeschylus' plays.


Sweet! I'm glad you have a lull, i've been up to my eyes in homework and probably will be until school is done in May. Email me if you need any help on how it works.

classicist
05-18-2005, 07:05 PM
I'm using BW 5 and not able to compile your work. I downloaded the most recent BW EXE (or thought so) and am still unable to compile due to maximum size exceeded errors. Are you aware of any EXE's for BW 5 that will fiix the problem?
TIA,
Tim

I too have had this problem. I was able to solve it in part by deleting all the hesiod from the .txt file, so as to just have Homer. This made the file small enough for BW5 to load and compile without any problem. I haven't tried breaking the file in two (mostly because I am not sure how that would work in the database file). If anyone knows how to do that, I would be much obliged.

Michael Hanel
05-18-2005, 08:46 PM
I too have had this problem. I was able to solve it in part by deleting all the hesiod from the .txt file, so as to just have Homer. This made the file small enough for BW5 to load and compile without any problem. I haven't tried breaking the file in two (mostly because I am not sure how that would work in the database file). If anyone knows how to do that, I would be much obliged.

What you need to do is email the BibleWorks tech support folks and ask them to make this change. I think it's a relatively easy programming fix, but it is definitely something they have to do on their end. The problem is basically that it will only accept X "verses" per "chapter" and the Homer-Hesiod database exceeds that. If they make that X bigger, it solves the problem. They made the change w BW6, but probably didnt bother doing it in older versions, so email them and I'm sure they'll be able to help you out.

Mark Eddy
05-19-2005, 10:45 AM
I too have had this problem. I was able to solve it in part by deleting all the hesiod from the .txt file, so as to just have Homer. This made the file small enough for BW5 to load and compile without any problem. I haven't tried breaking the file in two (mostly because I am not sure how that would work in the database file). If anyone knows how to do that, I would be much obliged.

It should be relatively easy to break the file in two. Just cut the Hesiod section. Then use WordPad to start a new file. Paste in the Hesiod verses. Name it something like Hes.txt and save it to the BW userbd folder.
Then in "My Computer" you need to copy the hhd.ddf file in the BW userbd folder to anywhere else. Rename the copied file something like hes.ddf and move it back to the BW userdb folder.
You will need to make one change in this file, either by opening it in My Comuter or from within BibleWorks in the Version Database Compiler. In the "Database Raw Text File" line you want to substitute hes.txt for hhd.txt. Then just run the Version Databse Compiler, and it should work, unless the Hesiod text file is too big. I'm using 6.0, so I can't try it out in 5.0.
Of course, BW is running a sale now on the upgrade to 6.0, so this might be a good reason to fork over $99. and get the other great additions to 6.0.
Hope this helps.
Mark Eddy

Michael Hanel
12-08-2005, 11:40 PM
Homer and Hesiod Greek database update to 2.0. HHG now contains the Homeric Hymns in Greek (that sure took a long time :))

you can download it via this link
http://www.cune.org/michael.hanel/hhg.zip

Homer and Hesiod in Greek
12/08/05
2.0
---
What's New

Added the Homeric Hymns to the Homer and Hesiod database! The Homeric Hymns text has not been thoroughly proofed, but it largely corresponds to the text of H. G. Evelyn-White of 1919 in the Loeb Classical series. (The typos to be expected are small ones, such as an acute accent where there should be a grave, if there's anything more serious, let me know)
----
Version History
1.0.1 1/11/05 : Made some corrections to make text work better.
1.0 1/7/05 : The first finished version of Homer/Hesiod. Format was in BWGrkl, but that caused too many problems that I couldn't resolve in any other way than converting to CCAT.

Michael Hanel
12-09-2005, 12:00 AM
If someone knows how to resolve this let me know:

The Homeric Hymns uses daggers in the text a few times, but they do not come out in CCAT.

Michael Hanel
12-09-2005, 04:50 PM
A minor textual upgrade to the HHG database. Cleaned up an issue with the Homeric Hymns. Capital letter Rho's were not caught in my Unicode -> CCAT macro and I had missed this. These portions are now fixed. Follow the link in the post above to the HHG. The zip file keeps the same name but inside the Readme and hhg.txt files are updated.

Oh and Merry Christmas early ;)

Michael Hanel
12-12-2005, 05:14 PM
Okay, this should be the last correction for a spell. The only thing left to correct is that the Homeric Hymns used daggers, which do not end up coming out through the VDC.

I fixed a few things in Hesiod because lines didn't match up to what was in the Loeb. The corrections are made by including extra lines in a verse after three dashes and then including the line heading for the text which follows.

For instance Hesiod's Works and Days has line 169 missing because it is found later in the Loeb's edition of it. WAD 1:173 contains the text from 169, but it also contains a few other additional lines 169a, b, c (or gamma in greek) and d. Previously these were including each as their own verse reference, but then that screwed up the subsequent verse numeration. It is important, I feel, to try to maintain a standard of verse references so that BW users can use normal Classical resources and know that when they're looking at WAD 1:824 it really corresponds to WAD line 824 in a standard text. Obviously due to copyright rules, this does not include the newest textual emendations, but it's a great place to start.

HHG 2.0.2 is found at the same address, rewrite over your old readme and hhg.txt and run it thru the VDC.

Also if anyone is interested, I have Plato's Republic Book I done in BW format. I'm not really releasing it publicly until I have finished more of Plato's works and then I will put them in their own "Version" just like Homer and Hesiod have a version here. Also I have a rough edition of Herodotus Book One done. It should line up with the standard Loeb, but before releasing that publicly I had planned to include a public domain English translation with it. It's much easier to find translations that will fit versification in prose than it is in poetry. If you are interested in those email me and I can pass them along, otherwise as I say they are works and progress and i won't release it until they're in a more acceptable shape.

Mark Eddy
12-12-2005, 06:45 PM
Thanks for all your work on these projects.
I noticed that in your database you have each of the Homeric hymns as a separate book. Yet each of these books has only one chapter. Would it not be better to make all the Homeric hymns one book, so that each of your current "books" would be a separate chapter. The verse numbers would remain unchanged.
This would also allow us to add one book name to the books.bna file, so that the book name could be read by BibleWorks, instead of seeing the "book name" for each of the hymns as the mysterious H01, HO2, etc. (HHy for "Homeric Hymns" is still available.)
Just a suggestion. But if you take it, I'll update the books.bna file that accomodates all the user databases thus far made available through the list of BW add-on versions.
Mark Eddy

Michael Hanel
12-12-2005, 07:13 PM
Thanks for all your work on these projects.
I noticed that in your database you have each of the Homeric hymns as a separate book. Yet each of these books has only one chapter. Would it not be better to make all the Homeric hymns one book, so that each of your current "books" would be a separate chapter. The verse numbers would remain unchanged.
This would also allow us to add one book name to the books.bna file, so that the book name could be read by BibleWorks, instead of seeing the "book name" for each of the hymns as the mysterious H01, HO2, etc. (HHy for "Homeric Hymns" is still available.)
Just a suggestion. But if you take it, I'll update the books.bna file that accomodates all the user databases thus far made available through the list of BW add-on versions.
Mark Eddy

Is it my understanding that the basic problem is that book names have to be 3 characters, and you don't like my choices? I follow you there. My choices were not heavily weighted and they could be corrected/changed, but follow up on the below and tell me what your opinion is.

Book names have to be 3 letters. Otherwise, HH(#) would be the more logical and helpful solution in my mind. But this can't be done since there are more than 10 hymns. However using the Book Names and aliases, one doesn't really ever need to see H01, etc. Granted I didn't fill out the aliases completely. This was by purpose because I'm not sure what aliases should be used. Input is certainly welcomed.

For my money, I prefer the hymns split into books because that way I can get their titles all at a glance rather than having to think to myself, which # was the Hymn to Artemis. However, if you want to redo them for those purposes, you certainly could.

Mark Eddy
12-13-2005, 02:14 AM
I was just thinking that you could treat the Homeric Hymns like the Psalms. Some of the Psalms have headings (verse 1 in Hebrew) which tell the author or occasion. Therefore Homeric Hymn 11 could simply be chapter 11 of the Homeric Hymns book. 11 would be the chapter number, rather than a part of a separate book abbreviation. I did not know that each hymn has a separate title (is this true?). If so, then you certainly could make each a separate book and use the title as the second item in the books.bna file.
But I just thought that since there is only one chapter number for each hymn, it would be just as easy to make them all one book. But even if each hymn has a title, you could make that title the beginning of verse 1, as most English translations of the Psalms treat the Psalm title. But I'm no Homeric scholar. If they prefer to refer to each hymn by title, don't let my suggestion stand in your way.
Mark Eddy

Michael Hanel
12-13-2005, 09:39 AM
But I just thought that since there is only one chapter number for each hymn, it would be just as easy to make them all one book. But even if each hymn has a title, you could make that title the beginning of verse 1, as most English translations of the Psalms treat the Psalm title. But I'm no Homeric scholar. If they prefer to refer to each hymn by title, don't let my suggestion stand in your way.
Mark Eddy

I haven't done enough bibliographic study, but in general the hymns are referred to as different units. For instance Hymn 2 is referred to as "h.Ap." (Hymn to Apollo) in Big LSJ (as opposed to Hom. Hymn #4 or the like)

Right now I've been tackling any Greek book by using chapter numbers when possible, but Greek poetry, which generally only uses line #s for references, chapter numbers are only used because I have no choice about that. Verse #'s = Line #'s. However in the Iliad and Odyssey, Chapter # = Book #'s.

But let's say Plato's Republic, that has multiple books. However, I've had to make each book a different "book" (like Gen, Exo., etc.) because Chapter and verse are being used to reference other things.

I realize it is confusing, but it is the best I can do to keep as much meaningful information as manifest as possible. BW wasn't exactly built for the supplements I'm adding, but so far I've been able to make it work.

Mark Eddy
12-13-2005, 05:31 PM
I haven't done enough bibliographic study, but in general the hymns are referred to as different units. For instance Hymn 2 is referred to as "h.Ap." (Hymn to Apollo) in Big LSJ (as opposed to Hom. Hymn #4 or the like).

This may be the case for seven of the 33 hymns. But in general LSJ uses the abbreviation h.Hom. for the entire set (see the abbreviation list on page xliv).
Look at LSJ p. 1015 at the very bottom of the first column. There is the reference: "h.Hom 1.4".


Right now I've been tackling any Greek book by using chapter numbers when possible, but Greek poetry, which generally only uses line #s for references, chapter numbers are only used because I have no choice about that. Verse #'s = Line #'s. However in the Iliad and Odyssey, Chapter # = Book #'s. .

That's what I suggest for the hymns too. chapter # = hymn #, and verse # = line #.


But let's say Plato's Republic, that has multiple books. However, I've had to make each book a different "book" (like Gen, Exo., etc.) because Chapter and verse are being used to reference other things..

BW had to do this with Hermas in the Apstolic Fathers, sort of. Jim Darlack came up with the idea of using letters in the abbreviation in place of book numbers, so HMK = "Hermas Mandate 11" as the book name, so that HMK 1:1 is the abbreviation for the lexicon standard Hm 11,1,1. Using letters gives you 26 (more) options for book names, so you can stay within the 3-letter abbreviation limit. This remains an option, when the standard reference to a literary work includes book, chapter, and verse.


I realize it is confusing, but it is the best I can do to keep as much meaningful information as manifest as possible. BW wasn't exactly built for the supplements I'm adding, but so far I've been able to make it work.

I have some old printed editions of the Illiad and Odyssy. Each "book" (chapter) has a Greek heading. So it appears that not only the Homeric hymns but also the Homeric poems have been known by individual names as well as numbers.
So, if you want to be able to search for "Hymn for Apollo", you don't have to have a separate book for it. Just include the title [perhaps in brackets] at the beginning of line/verse 1. That way you can do a Greek search for the title, if you forget which number it is.
These titles could also be added for the Homeric poems.
Not trying to make more work for you, but hoping to save work for all BW users in the future.
Mark Eddy

Michael Hanel
12-15-2005, 12:55 PM
Homer and Hesiod in Greek
12/15/05
2.0.3
---
What's New

* Changed Homeric Hymns into one book with 33 chapters instead of 33 books with one chapter.
* Changed Book Name alias of Homeric Hymns from H## to HHY. Update this in your Book Names file in BW (see below).
* Added titles to the beginning of each chapter and included references to them in the HHG.bww. So update this by copying it over your existing HHG.bww file in the "databases" directory of BibleWorks.