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View Full Version : Removing highlights from searched words (This Program Is Too Non-Intuitive, vol. 53)



Dan Phillips
12-27-2004, 01:05 PM
So you accidentally double-click "the" in a verse, and now every occurrence of "the" is yellow. Right-click, no option to toggle off. Only way I know to turn it off simply (?!!) is switch to KJV, search "Parbar," then go back to the verse I was studying.

I'm sure you brainiacs know a better way. Share, please?

I should say this directly to The Bigs, but: I do IT support for a living, and yet I fnid this program for all its strengths and wonders, which are many to be far too non-intuitive, non-user-friendly. I have to do major research just to remember how to do a minor change in appearance. And searching, beyond what right-clicking can get me? Forget it; there isn't room in my brain to learn that Byzantine process. Learning Greek and Hebrew was much easier, and more intuitive.

< /rant >

Dan

vr8ce
12-27-2004, 04:44 PM
So you accidentally double-click "the" in a verse, and now every occurrence of "the" is yellow. Right-click, no option to toggle off. Only way I know to turn it off simply (?!!) is switch to KJV, search "Parbar," then go back to the verse I was studying. Don't remember if there is an "official" way, but the easiest way is to hit ESC to go to the command line, then type . and hit Enter. You'll get a message that says you a search can't begin with a blank, and then all your highlights will go away.


I should say this directly to The Bigs, but: I do IT support for a living, and yet I fnid this program for all its strengths and wonders, which are many to be far too non-intuitive, non-user-friendly. I have to do major research just to remember how to do a minor change in appearance. And searching, beyond what right-clicking can get me? Forget it; there isn't room in my brain to learn that Byzantine process. Learning Greek and Hebrew was much easier, and more intuitive. Such is the state of Bible software on the PC. BW is the best there is, and the easiest to use, and I've thoroughly investigated (used them on my PC for extended periods) all of them. I definitely understand your sentiments, and have been trying (unsuccessfully) to get a few small things UI-wise improved for a few years now. However, the good news is that the help file is (mostly) wonderful, as is the manual. I would suggest you read the manual cover to cover. You won't remember everything (not supposed to), but you'll likely remember that it's there, and so can then find it with the help file search.

None of that would have helped you in this instance, though. Searching for "highlighting" doesn't yield anything obvious. Hence my homemade remedy above.

Vince

MBushell
12-27-2004, 05:40 PM
Hi Dan and Vince,

To clear hit highlighting right click on the command line and choose "clear hit highlighting". That seemed like the most "intuitive" place to put it.

We have gone round and round about the user interface and will have another round of "simplifications" in 7.0. But the bottom line is that you cannot have a program that is as complex and powerful as BibleWorks without having nooks and crannies. The same problem exists with any major Windows application. We will have better training materials with the next release but there is no easy answer. Power always involves complexity.

If you don't know how to do something you can always ask, either on the forum or at support@bibleworks.com. The phrase "intuitive program" can be quite meaningless. There are many people who think BW is the most intuitive program around. There are others who think it has a 64 bit encrypyted interface. All we can do is try to provide something that keeps most people happy and productive. If you have specific suggestions we are happy to listen.

God bless,
Mike Bushell
BibleWorks,LLC

vr8ce
12-28-2004, 02:28 AM
To clear hit highlighting right click on the command line and choose "clear hit highlighting". That seemed like the most "intuitive" place to put it. Thanks! However, since the command line wasn't used to do the highlighting (in this example), and since the highlighting doesn't appear in the command line, it seems more intuitive to put that option on the right-hand menus for the response and CC verse windows (in addition to the command line), where the highlighting does appear. In other words, we're going to "intuitively" look on the right-hand menu for where the highlighting appears first.


But the bottom line is that you cannot have a program that is as complex and powerful as BibleWorks without having nooks and crannies. The same problem exists with any major Windows application. Yes, but only the nooks and crannies should be non-intuitive. I use "major Windows applications" every day, and use new ones regularly (I'm in the IT business). Almost all of them are "intuitive", in the sense that I rarely have to look at the help, at least for 90% of the functionality (the remainder being the "nooks and crannies").


We will have better training materials with the next release but there is no easy answer. As I mentioned, I find the current Help very helpful. The only complaint I've ever had is that the Search help is found more under Command-line than Search. I've offered suggestions for how to improve that.


Power always involves complexity. Absolutely.


The phrase "intuitive program" can be quite meaningless. Well, outside of a context, possibly, but this is in a context, see above.


If you have specific suggestions we are happy to listen. 1. Standardize BW's window handling. Very few windows show up on the Window menu, at least in the number section at the bottom, where they should all appear. For example, opening Greek lexicons creates a <1> entry in the middle section of Windows, instead of a &2 entry on the bottom section. The latter is the standard method of adding windows to the windows menu (the middle section is a BW-oddity, at least the <0>, <1>, etc. ).
2. Use Alt-Left and Alt-Right as keyboard equivalents for Previous/Next Context. Thanks to browsers, these are universally understood "Previous/Next" shortcuts.
3. Give some keyboard way to get back to other windows. For example, using opening Greek Lexicons again, once ESC is used to get back to the command line, there's no keyboard shortcut way to get back to the lexicon window.
4. Don't close Resource windows on ESC, which is supposed to go to the command line. This happens all the time to me: I open a lexicon, or Lexical/Grammatical Help, or Robertson's, or whatever, and I then hit ESC to get back to the command line to do something, and my resource closes. So I've lost my place, etc. Why is ESC closing those windows? Ironically, it *doesn't* close the Help window, which ESC oftentimes does close. The latter behavior is fine, but the same method should be used for the former.

To repeat my previous email, I think BW is the best there is. I look forward to BW7 and those "simplifications".

Vince

pastor-steve
12-28-2004, 03:52 AM
First of all, it's true that the word "intuitive" doesn't mean the same thing to all people. However, in a user interface design sense, what we're really talking about is "consistency." Is the program being evaluated consistent with other programs so things that work similarly to the way they work in the other programs people use? Then there are things we learn as babies and continue to expect to see in our lives. For example, if you put something somewhere, it generally stays there and continues to exist. (Object permanence.)

My issue is with the BW UI is verse ranges. You've heard it before, but any time there's a list of ways to make BW easier to use, I want to add it.

If I type a verse range (e.g. John 14:25-27), please don't erase my verse list until I actually request something else. I want BW to remember my verse range when I add/remove a display version, highlight something, or type a new search and then hit the back button. Currently my range disappears and only the frist verse appears (John 14:25 instead of John 14:25-27). This is "nonintuitive" because the program is doing stuff I didn't ask it to do. And, it doesn't work like other progams where the "back" button takes me back to the whole page I was looking at, not some fraction of it. (Imagine if your web browser worked that way.)

I've been asking for this for three BW versions now and buying new versions hoping it will be fixed. BW staff, please consider it. I remember a lot of people agreeing with the request back in the listserv days - and before v. 6.0 came out. I will most likely check with BW about this before I purchase the next version.

I use blocks of text all the time for research and preaching, and I'm constantly having to modify some little thing (e.g., What does the NET Bible do with this phrase? or How did the Septuagint translate this?) and my block of text goes away every time. It really makes me crazy.

Thanks!

Steve

P.S. I have a Master's degree in computer sicence and have studied user interface design. I'm not making up this stuff about consistency. It's the number one concern in making a program or website easy to use.

MBushell
12-28-2004, 03:03 PM
Hi Steve,

I am sorry for the obvious frustration that you feel but we have done the best we could with a difficult issue. BW was designed from the ground up to display verse data in 2 modes - one verse at a time in multiple versions and in browse mode in a single version. The ability to display multiple verse in multiple-version mode was added as a response to a user request and we complied, but with the caveat that it might not always work as desired or expected. That was years ago and we have gotten very few complaints. At one point a few years ago we did attempt to make the verse range setting from command line lookups more "persistent". It generated more problems than it was worth and we withdrew the change. The problem is that the code which loads the results wilndow is called from hundreds of places, most of which you would not want to use the command line range. The program was never designed to do this and changing it right involves a major time-consuming effort which would generate lots of unwanted side effects which would have to be eliminated. Most companies will not make real time feature enhancements because of situations like this. We have always tried to bend over backwards to help users, with the hope that they would understand that the process of real-time enhancement means the possibility of false starts or features that don't make everyone happy.

I reinsitituted the old modifications and made a few changes which may make it work better. The new exe is posted now. It is off by default and most people will want to leave it that way. This comes with the caveat that it may have unwanted side effects (if the faeture is enabled) that we cannot address without a major code rework. That is unlikely in this case. We have lots on our plates. As implemented the program should preserve the Results Window during coloring operations and version changes. Beyond that it may or may not work as you requested. It will not work, for example, with the history back button and that would require more time than we can expend right now and would require a beta testing period (it is too dangerous to post publicly). I hope this is of some help. Let me know if you have problems. I may be able to deal with some of them, but if it involves major surgery it will have to wait.

We appreciate your support and patience.

God bless,
Mike

nalsop
12-29-2004, 01:27 AM
Well, I was waiting for this topic to come up mainly because I can't seem to get rid of any highlighting. I am not such a regular user that I care much but how would I get rid of highlighting through out the whole program and start over?
Thanks for your help.
Nick

MTan
12-29-2004, 11:27 AM
"To clear hit highlighting right click on the command line and choose "clear hit highlighting". That seemed like the most "intuitive" place to put it."

Hope that helps.

Michael

Michael Hanel
12-29-2004, 11:31 AM
I could be misunderstanding Nick, but I think he wanted to know how to get rid of all highlighting period, not just hit highlighting.


To do that click on the Open Text Highlighter button on the button bar (it's red, green and yellow horizontal stripes). Once you click on that you can delete highlighting files and start over.

I hope that's what you're looking for :)

Mike

Philip Brown
12-29-2004, 11:44 PM
For as long as I've been using BW, I'm elated to learn about the Clear Hit Highlighting function! I didn't know it existed. I supposed I should be embarrassed to admit that, but it's true nonetheless. I have wished several times over the past days for this capacity ...ask not, receive not.

In this case, I would agree with Vince that a RW context menu would be a much more intuitive location for this function than the Commandline. I have on more than one occasion scanned the RW context menu looking for this option, just to see if it existed, to no avail.

Thanks for all the great work you put into BW, Mike and Michael!

Philip

pastor-steve
12-31-2004, 02:36 AM
I'm happy to hear about the "clear hit highlighting" command. Since it's a hassle to remove it in Word, I had been amkign up otehr searches to get rid of it before cut and pasting. This is great!

In response to Mike Bushell, now I really understand this issue. I joined the BibleWorks crowd in version 4 after the verse range stuff was already in. It looks like a fully-supported part of the program. I use it constantly to do exegesis on a passage of scripture for preaching and teaching, with original languages alongside several English versions. It's much handier than doing it verse by verse.

On the other hand, I understand what happens to the code when you try to make software do things it wasn't originally designed to do - even with well-designed software. This makes sense to me.

I have downloaded and am running the version with "remember command line verse ranges" turned on. I hope that you will see the value in fully implementing that in the next version. Until then, thank you for making this option available. I've tried it out already and so far it's been a joy to use. (I'll live without the back button thing for now. :))

If you ever do any open source add-ons, let me know! I haven't forgotten how to code yet. (What's BibleWorks written in anyway?)

Keep up the good work and may God continue to bless your BibleWorks ministry.

Steve

Philip Brown
12-31-2004, 10:52 AM
Hi, Steve,

Actually there is another way to remove hit highlighting when you are exporting stuff to Word.

Go to Tools | Options | Option Flags | Export Options and uncheck Export Colors ... option.

Also, a tip on Word just in case you hadn't figured out to to remove BW background shading: BW applies the shading to the text not paragraph. In Word 2000, for example, to remove shading you go to Format | Borders and Shading | Shading Tab | Set Fill to 'No Fill" and apply to Text.

Philip

pastor-steve
01-01-2005, 03:20 AM
Hi, Philip!

You know, I've toyed with unchecking "export colors," but I keep imagining I'm goign to color code my Bible as I use it for preaching and teaching. So far, I haven't done that.

Yeah, I figured out how to remove BW highlighting (borders and shading...). Too bad it doesn't go away with the little highlighter pen icon. Must be some weird RTF thing.

Thanks for the tips! Maybe I'll turn off exporting the colors until such a time as I actually need them. We'll see!

Steve