PDA

View Full Version : newbie questions



Chip Sellars
03-01-2014, 07:06 AM
Hi, my name is Chip and I love studying God’s Word! Having no ancient Greek or Hebrew, most of my time is spent trying to figure out what the Bible really says in the original language, and I’ve found some online resources very helpful, such as Biblehub, Studylight, Scripture4all, etc. But I want more, so I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on BibleWorks9 with the ESV Study Bible and BDAG/HALOT modules. Before I do that, I’d like to ask you guys a few questions.

1) What other modules have you found to be particularly helpful?

2) Does anyone know what other modules BibleWorks may be planning to add, like Botterweck’s TDOT for example?

3) I notice some folks here use multiple programs, such as Logos and Accordance. If you had to choose just one, which would it be? What advantages or disadvantages does BibleWorks have compared to others?

4) It looks like BibleWorks has a powerful and flexible search function. You can do a simple search of multiple words in one verse, but does anyone know a way to search multiple words in a passage? Like, “find all these words that occur anywhere within ten verses of each other.” Something like that.

5) A non-BibleWorks question: anybody know of a good online forum about theology?


Any light y’all could share on these questions, or any other thoughts about BW, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Peter
03-01-2014, 07:55 AM
1) What other modules have you found to be particularly helpful?
=> That is very different according to your needs: I'm fond of the Peshitta Modules, the German lexicons (as I'm German) e.g.

2) Does anyone know what other modules BibleWorks may be planning to add, like Botterweck’s TDOT for example?
=> No idea. But I like surprises.

3) I notice some folks here use multiple programs, such as Logos and Accordance. If you had to choose just one, which would it be? What advantages or disadvantages does BibleWorks ave compared to others?
=> After running BibleWorks over ten years now, while comparing it with other tools, BibleWorks has the best features for a very reasonable price (e.g. the search engine, the new CNTTS Apparatus and so forth).


4) It looks like BibleWorks has a powerful and flexible search function. You can do a simple search of multiple words in one verse, but does anyone know a way to search multiple words in a passage? Like, “find all these words that occur anywhere within ten verses of each other.” Something like that.

=> No Problem.


5) A non-BibleWorks question: anybody know of a good online forum about theology?
=> No. I'd prefer the Biblical Greek (or Hebrew) Forum, which is not based on theological presuppositions.

Peter, Germany

Chip Sellars
03-01-2014, 09:11 AM
Thanks Peter! Where do you find these Greek and Hebrew discussions?

Joan Korte
03-01-2014, 11:38 AM
Hi, my name is Chip and I love studying God’s Word! Having no ancient Greek or Hebrew, most of my time is spent trying to figure out what the Bible really says in the original language, and I’ve found some online resources very helpful, such as Biblehub, Studylight, Scripture4all, etc. But I want more, so I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on BibleWorks9 with the ESV Study Bible and BDAG/HALOT modules. Before I do that, I’d like to ask you guys a few questions.

1) What other modules have you found to be particularly helpful?

2) Does anyone know what other modules BibleWorks may be planning to add, like Botterweck’s TDOT for example?

3) I notice some folks here use multiple programs, such as Logos and Accordance. If you had to choose just one, which would it be? What advantages or disadvantages does BibleWorks have compared to others?



Any light y’all could share on these questions, or any other thoughts about BW, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Chip,
Check out this thread: http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?5493-BW-9-vs-Logos-5
That should help answer some of your questions.

Chip Sellars
03-02-2014, 04:32 AM
Thanks Joan, very helpful. I was impressed by Michael Hanel's comments in that thread about Biblework's (the company's) altruistic attitude. I'd noticed this before on the Modules page where they gave a caveat about building data libraries. I'd pretty much made up my mind to purchase BibleWorks but just wanted to hear from a few users first, so I'm going ahead with the order. I'm very excited about this, because I love the Word and I think a new dimension of Bible study is about to open up here. I appreciate your help and comments!

Peter
03-02-2014, 06:17 AM
Thanks Peter! Where do you find these Greek and Hebrew discussions?

Hi Chip,

I hope this link is working: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/
I'm reading along by daily Email, but this online link should work as well. Please try.

Then the Hebrew discussion board:
http://biblicalhumanities.org/bhebrew (http://biblicalhumanities.org/bhebrew)

The quality of both boards is quite good, but you have to be aware, that personal opinions come into play as well. But that's normal I think.

Hope to see you there !

Greetings from Germany !
Yours
Peter

Jim Wert
03-02-2014, 05:20 PM
1) What other modules have you found to be particularly helpful?


I also do not know Greek or Hebrew; I share that status with you.

The added modules (other than HALOT and BDAG) I have found especially useful are:

Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament ($119) -- very good articles.
Dead Sea Scrolls English Translation Bundle: Biblical and Sectarian Texts -- only $30.
A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint (LEHS) ($25) This is very useful if you are interested in the LXX.
A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament ($20) -- I like to see what Metzger has to say.

These are just my personal favorites.

--Jim

Lee
03-02-2014, 05:30 PM
Welcome, Chip. Personally, I'd encourage you to study Greek and Hebrew apart from just looking up meanings of words in lexicons. Each language works as a unit, and not understanding how a language works can easily lead to misunderstandings when using language tools apart from any real understanding of the language. There are some very good online Hebrew lectures (and other resources) available at http://animatedhebrew.com/. I imagine there are many similar online resources available for Greek.

As far as additional BW modules, you ought to be more than sufficiently-equipped with BW right out of the box + BDAG and HALOT. I have several add-ons, but I would recommend adding them as you go. You can sometimes even find someone selling "used" modules at a discount.

I look forward to seeing your input around here.

DavidR
03-05-2014, 01:40 PM
+1 on Lee's suggestion to learn the languages. Vocabulary is not the only way in which languages communicate. I invite you to consider the English sentence "I ran over myself": you could know all the words, but unless you knew whether "myself" is being used as an adverb or as a reflexive pronoun in the objective case, you'd be very confused about the meaning! Apart from online opportunities (with which I'm not familiar), if you have a seminary or Bible college nearby, they'd probably be open to a part-time student registering just for a language class. That, of course, involves a commitment of money and scheduling that may not be workable.

As to modules, just regarding vocabulary, BDAG is superb for NT Greek, but it's often useful to see how words were used outside the biblical texts. After all, the NT writers were writing the language that everyone around them used, some at higher literary levels (Luke, Hebrews) others at lower (Mark, Revelation). Therefore getting a sense of a word's range of meanings in general Greek is also helpful. To that end, the VGNT module examines words used in the NT in light of their usage in other ancient texts, especially the numerous everyday papyrus documents that scholars had become aware of in the 19th century. It can be a little hard to follow, since it doesn't translate a lot of the Greek texts that it cites as examples, but it often raises interesting insights.

And of course when you've learned Greek and your ship comes in :), you can add the LSJM module, the Greek-English dictionary that covers all of ancient Greek.

brainout
03-05-2014, 05:08 PM
I also do not know Greek or Hebrew; I share that status with you.

The added modules (other than HALOT and BDAG) I have found especially useful are:

Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament ($119) -- very good articles.
Dead Sea Scrolls English Translation Bundle: Biblical and Sectarian Texts -- only $30.
A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint (LEHS) ($25) This is very useful if you are interested in the LXX.
A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament ($20) -- I like to see what Metzger has to say.

These are just my personal favorites.

--Jim
Jim, were you the guy in this forum who recommended EDNT to me some years back? If so, THANK YOU!!! I finally had time to use it today. Saves me time trying to figure out how to load TDNT again (I have it on standalone from Logos). I love how it goes through usage and etymology.

I tried to find who recommended it to me, searching on 'EDNT', and found this post. I'll go back to topic, on my next post.

brainout
03-05-2014, 05:28 PM
Hi, my name is Chip and I love studying God’s Word! Having no ancient Greek or Hebrew, most of my time is spent trying to figure out what the Bible really says in the original language, and I’ve found some online resources very helpful, such as Biblehub, Studylight, Scripture4all, etc. But I want more, so I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on BibleWorks9 with the ESV Study Bible and BDAG/HALOT modules. Before I do that, I’d like to ask you guys a few questions.

1) What other modules have you found to be particularly helpful?

2) Does anyone know what other modules BibleWorks may be planning to add, like Botterweck’s TDOT for example?

3) I notice some folks here use multiple programs, such as Logos and Accordance. If you had to choose just one, which would it be? What advantages or disadvantages does BibleWorks have compared to others?

4) It looks like BibleWorks has a powerful and flexible search function. You can do a simple search of multiple words in one verse, but does anyone know a way to search multiple words in a passage? Like, “find all these words that occur anywhere within ten verses of each other.” Something like that.

5) A non-BibleWorks question: anybody know of a good online forum about theology?


Any light y’all could share on these questions, or any other thoughts about BW, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

For me, the most helpful modules right now are the facsimile copies of the mss. I've been documenting Bible Hebrew Meter which even the NT writers use with Greek words, since 2008. So it helps a lot to see the actual textual variants in their native habitat, so to speak. That might be more than you need right now, but as a newbie it might be a thrill to see what the actual manuscripts look like. Next best thing to touching them.

And oh boy, am I grateful to BW9 more than ever, right now! Those textual variants helped me prove John's dateline for each of his books (Gospel 1John Revelation, written 77 AD, 80AD and 89 AD, respectively; each Bible writer datelines his text by means of the meter, see my http://www.vimeo.com/channels/johnmeter if you want details). The variants were VERY easy to analyze, thanks to BW9. I'm so happy I could scream. Point is, if someone makes phony textual claims to discredit Bible (like Bart Ehrman), that module in particular -- all the variants displayed -- is a Godsend.

All the lexicons and other learning materials are called 'modules' too, and I love them all. Reading Bible in the original Hebrew and Greek (or other languages that are sometimes used), is like looking at God Face to Face. Can't live without it. Don't want to. On the other hand, it's easy to go overboard. Ask God what modules you best need 'now'. That will save you a lot of time.

Concerning multiple programs, I have the Logos version of TDNT (aka 'Big Kittel'), and while I love TDNT, I can't love the Logos interface. But many do. To me there's too much 'marketing', and the interface windowing is too arcane. Depends on your own style, though. Accordance has its fans, and I'm thinking of getting it also, but for me BW is king. You also might want to check out the free 'The Word' software, which is customizable and structured like Bibleworks.

Concerning search: really, just type a period in the search box, followed by the words you want. I've been using BW for over 10 years and never had to use the more sophisticated search engine. BW is good at bringing up synonyms, if you search all in the same language version, and you have a number of Bibles in that same language version, installed. BW8 and 9 are a bit more cumbersome in that now you get this popup window of the occurrences in each version that you have to close, before you can look at the search results. The first time you call up the program you might not get search results, but do the search again and they show up.

Concerning online theology forums, well.. it depends on your beliefs, frankly. I'm pre-Trib Dispie, so I'm not welcome in any Reformed forum, no matter how nicely I behave. By contrast, if I go to the Rapture or prophecy forums, or even any doctrine forums where folks share the same 'take' on Scripture, convo there is way too simple for me. This is the best of the forums I've found, frankly, but then your experience might differ, depending on what topics interest you. And if you are interested in Greek, then the B-Greek forum (http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/forum/#read) is of extreme value. You can't post unless willing to disclose your real name. So I don't post there, but anyone can read.

Hope this long answer helps. Yell at me if it doesn't. Welcome to BW and this forum!

Chip Sellars
03-07-2014, 11:57 AM
Thanks so much, everybody. Some good counsel here and I really appreciate all your thoughtfulness. The software arrived yesterday and I'm so excited! Unfortunately I'm traveling now and won't be able to get into it until week after next. Shalom everyone!

Peter
03-08-2014, 06:29 AM
Thanks so much, everybody. Some good counsel here and I really appreciate all your thoughtfulness. The software arrived yesterday and I'm so excited! Unfortunately I'm traveling now and won't be able to get into it until week after next. Shalom everyone!

Please share your first impressions with us. Thanks !
Peter, Germany

Chip Sellars
03-08-2014, 10:05 AM
Thanks Peter, I'll be sure to check back in. Thanks also for the links to the Greek and Hebrew forums. All you guys are so nice and helpful! I've been viewing some of brainout's videos--quite interesting! Hey brainout, you mentioned some of your pastor's writings. Have they been published and are they available?

Thanks again y'all,
Chip