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Nick Laurence
07-30-2013, 06:08 PM
I'm learning Aramaic at the moment, so this question might be something connected to my relative ignorance of this language.In Daniel 2:22 the word מְסַתְּרָתָא is parsed by BW9 as "verb pael feminine plural determined" which seems to contain all the relevant information except that it is a "participle" (a passive participle?). Is this omission an error in WTM or have I misunderstood?

SkipB
07-31-2013, 01:06 AM
Nick, the parsing in WTM for this word is definitely wonky. If you tried to enter that tag for a search the code checker on the command line would not allow it. %vMsfpd makes no sense to me. It should be %vMPfpd. The lower case s in the 3rd position must be an error. You should probably send it to the email address for database corrections.
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Actually you can do that at the website here: http://www.bibleworks.com/dberror_form.html

CapnKirk
07-31-2013, 09:27 AM
Greetings!

I'm the senior editor of the Westminster Hebrew Morphology, which is at issue here.

In our database in the current release, this word is marked with the code "s", meaning passive participle. BibleWorks sometimes uses different codes from ours, which is fine.

But, in this case, the problem is in the handling of this code; it appears BibleWorks is not displaying the code properly. Possible regression error from a change in BibleWorks?

Blessings,
Kirk
--
Kirk E. Lowery, PhD
President & Senior Research Fellow
The J. Alan Groves Center for Advanced Biblical Research
http://www.GrovesCenter.org

CapnKirk
07-31-2013, 09:37 AM
After some further investigation (and more careful reading of this thread!), the parsing string "%vMsfpd" is exactly correct. The original poster apparently missed the significance of the "s" in the third position.

Admittedly, the codes are arcane. We always recommend to software developers that the software "interprets" the codes for the user so that he doesn't have to learn them. But that's a topic for another thread.;)

Blessings,
Kirk
--
Kirk E. Lowery, PhD
President & Senior Research Fellow
The J. Alan Groves Center for Advanced Biblical Research
http://www.GrovesCenter.org

SkipB
07-31-2013, 10:15 AM
Kirk
Thank you, I have been through the listing of codes in the Bibleworks manual, and have not found an s listed for what they call aspect. It is not presented as an option in the drop down list (to help with entering codes). Appreciate the clarification.

CapnKirk
07-31-2013, 10:27 AM
Kirk
Thank you, I have been through the listing of codes in the Bibleworks manual, and have not found an s listed for what they call aspect. It is not presented as an option in the drop down list (to help with entering codes). Appreciate the clarification.

FYI, we think of the third position of the parsing string for verbs as the "conjugation" category: perfect, imperfect, participle, imperative, etc. We see it as a formal inflectional category and take a neutral position on what the conjugations actually mark. ;)

Blessings,

Kirk
--
Kirk E. Lowery, PhD
President & Senior Research Fellow
The J. Alan Groves Center for Advanced Biblical Research
http://www.GrovesCenter.org

Jim Wert
07-31-2013, 03:25 PM
In WTM, both BW7 and BW8 offered "s" (passive participle) as a third position code for verbs, and display that description with the gloss and parsing on mouse-over.
In the help for WTM morphological coding scheme they included "s qal passive part" under Verb / Aspect.

--Jim

SkipB
08-01-2013, 10:18 PM
Jim,
I count 32 different instances of a passive participle (28 different forms) in Aramaic parts of Ezra and Daniel. They all have the s in that conjugation or aspect position. You have to use a form with that code and append it to the command line in wtm and then edit that to be able to search for it, since the command line wont let you type the s at that position. Whats the best way to get this looked at?

Nick Laurence
08-08-2013, 03:34 PM
Nick, the parsing in WTM for this word is definitely wonky. If you tried to enter that tag for a search the code checker on the command line would not allow it. %vMsfpd makes no sense to me. It should be %vMPfpd. The lower case s in the 3rd position must be an error. You should probably send it to the email address for database corrections.
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Actually you can do that at the website here: http://www.bibleworks.com/dberror_form.html
Just to let people know, a few days ago I did report this issue by this means, and asked that this thread was consulted to understand the problem. No response as yet, but hopefully it's being looked into.