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ptd99uk
11-20-2004, 06:28 AM
I was wondering what electronic tools BW users employ when they have to include Hebrew and English words in a document, e.g. when writing notes, tests or exams for students learning Hebrew.

Using Word, I have been labouriously typing Hebrew terms in reverse order (left to right), then changing to the bwhebb.ttf font, but I'm sure there's got to be a better solution.

I have seen the Unitype Global Writer word processor advertised, and wonder if anyone has tried it?

Any comments, help, suggestions, advice will be gratefully received. Thank you.

MGVH
11-20-2004, 07:44 AM
It would certainly seem easier to type in Hebrew in the Editor window in BW and then copy and paste into your word processor.
If you are using WinXP, however, a better solution might be simply to use Unicode in MSWord. (You really need WinXP to do this without frustration.) You would need to get a suitable font (the free SBL Hebrew font (http://www.sbl-site.org/TechResearch/TechResearch_SBLFontFoundation.aspx) would be great) and then install Tavultesoft's free keyboard utility (http://www.tavultesoft.com/). You get automatic right-to-left support, and it also works great for Greek.

Richard Henley
11-22-2004, 11:34 AM
Greetings,

You may want to look at DavkaWriter or Dagesh Pro. Both can be purchased on the Internet. I prefer DavkaWriter, which is currently at "Platinum" version 5.

While I'm on the subject....
Soap Box Mode On.

BibleWorks would do well to have a look at DavkaWriter's keyboard layout and interface capabilities. Language input is an afterthought in BibleWorks, that I have hoped, over the last several versions, would be corrected. It has not. The simplest non-English language input in the Command Line box, is unnecessarily difficult and clumsy. BibleWorks needs to supply a means for providing user-selectable non-English keyboard layouts to which the user is accustomed, rather than forcing them to adopt yet-again, another arcane keyboard interface.

BibleWorks seriously needs a genuine quality word processor, and/or the ability to seamlessly integrate with a word processor of the user's choice, using any font set and keyboard layout.

Soap Box Mode Off.

Joe Fleener
11-22-2004, 01:54 PM
Soap Box Mode On.

BibleWorks would do well to have a look at DavkaWriter's keyboard layout and interface capabilities. Language input is an afterthought in BibleWorks, that I have hoped, over the last several versions, would be corrected. It has not. The simplest non-English language input in the Command Line box, is unnecessarily difficult and clumsy. BibleWorks needs to supply a means for providing user-selectable non-English keyboard layouts to which the user is accustomed, rather than forcing them to adopt yet-again, another arcane keyboard interface.

BibleWorks seriously needs a genuine quality word processor, and/or the ability to seamlessly integrate with a word processor of the user's choice, using any font set and keyboard layout.

Soap Box Mode Off.

There is hope for the future of the editor. See the following tread:

http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1197&postcount=1

As always feel free to send your ideas to ideas@bibleworks.com. Since they are already working on the editor this would be a good time to send such ideas.

Believing Sojourner
11-26-2004, 06:48 AM
Greetings,

You may want to look at DavkaWriter or Dagesh Pro. Both can be purchased on the Internet. I prefer DavkaWriter, which is currently at "Platinum" version 5.

Hi, Richard. I have looked at several websites since reading your post. Are there reasons other than price that you prefer DavkaWriter to Dagesh Pro? I would like to know.

Thank you.

Scott L. Adams

Richard Henley
11-29-2004, 12:27 PM
Scott,

In response to your question, there are several reasons why I prefer DavkaWriter Ė both subjective and objective.

Although I started out with DavkaWriter, I also have Dagesh Pro. Being used to a productís characteristics, certainly makes a difference in oneís perspective. On the other hand, I find DavkaWriter offers more of the kinds of tools that I typically need. Thatís one of the reasons I keep gravitating back to it. In my opinion, DavkaWriter generally provides a better and more accessible set of resources for text input, formatting, and printing. This hasnít always been the case, which is why I originally purchased Dagesh Pro, but the latest version of DavkaWriter is more refined and polished than earlier versions. I am now normally able to get my work accomplished in a relatively straightforward manner with DavkaWriter.

You will probably have to try each program for yourself. You may use a Hebrew word processor in different ways than I use it, and have different expectations, which may bring you to an entirely different conclusion.

Hope this helps.

Richard.

MGVH
11-29-2004, 01:42 PM
Another option for entering Hebrew (and any other language really) that uses Unicode is Nota Bene. You would need the Lingua Workstation.
(http://www.notabene.com/brochure/lingua.html)It is pricey, but it does everything. Many dissertations including mine have been written using Nota Bene.

Richard Henley
11-30-2004, 11:44 AM
Hi Mark,

Thanks for bringing Nota Bene into the discussion.

Years ago a friend used a DOS version of Nota Bene, and my impression of the program was positive, but it was a unique environment unto itself, as was virtually every program of that era. At that time, programs such as DOS WordStar were the dominant word processors in the PC world. I occasionally wondered what happened to Nota Bene, thinking it followed WordStar into obscurity as the PC world transitioned to a Windows environment.

Iím happy to see Nota Bene made the transition. As a result of your message, I went to the Nota Bene website. You are correct, it is expensive, both as an initial purchase and for upgrades, but if I remember correctly, that has always been the case. On the other hand, if Nota Bene provides a superior set of tools, it may be worth the cost to someone who engages in serious writing. Iíll have a closer look at it myself. Their pricing though, will be a significant hurdle to overcome.

Richard Henley

Joe Fleener
11-30-2004, 12:10 PM
Hi Richard,

I believe you will find Nota Bene worth every penny (and I agree it takes plenty of pennies!).

If you give them a call they will send you a demo version which would allow you to test most of the functions and features. It is amazing. If you go with Nota Bene, I highly recommend BookWhere as well for all you bibliographic needs. I have not typed a footnote or bibliography from scratch in two years!

Dale A. Brueggemann
12-14-2004, 10:25 PM
[QUOTE=ptd99uk]I was wondering what electronic tools BW users employ when they have to include Hebrew and English words in a document,....I have been labouriously typing Hebrew terms in reverse order (left to right), then changing to the bwhebb.ttf font, but I'm sure there's got to be a better solution.

Suggestion 1: Cut and paste examples from BibleWorks rather than typing.

Suggestion 2: Use NotaBene www.notabene.com (http://www.notabene.com/), which provides powerful academic word processing, including not only Greek and Hebrew but even correct word wrap in Hebrew. The downside: It's not a very elegant program and has a steep learning curve. Nonetheless, I've moved to it and and glad I did.

Suggestion 3: Hang on using suggestion one until full Unicode comes to Windows and MSWord. Windows XP is Unicode compatible, though with some remaining problems I hear; and perhaps the next version of Word will be fully Unicode compatible.

David Kummerow
12-20-2004, 12:54 AM
I still just use MS Word 2000 running on Windows 2000. But I had to join the MS Volt Community to get a file called usp10.dll. This file is the Uniscribe script processor, ie it is the file that does all the rendering and positioning of particular glyphs in a font. If this file isn't updated (it's found in [Windows Folder]\System32) Hebrew will render incorrectly, but if it is updated then you can get away with using older software but still type Hebrew in correctly. I tend to use the SBL Hebrew font, available freely here:

http://www.sbl-site.org/Fonts/SBLHebrew-Distributionv107.zip

To get the file usp10.dll, you have to join the Volt Community here:

http://groups.msn.com/MicrosoftVOLTuserscommunity

David Kummerow.