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AbramKJ
07-15-2012, 09:48 PM
At the risk of being the odd person out, I thought I'd maybe see what folks' experiences have been in using BibleWorks to work through the Septuagint? I couldn't find a whole lot about it after a few forum searches ("Septuagint," "LXX," "Old Greek," etc.). But I'm sure more than a few BW users do utilize the Septuagint and its related tools.

I wrote a bit here (http://abramkj.wordpress.com/2012/07/15/bibleworks-and-the-septuagint/) about my experiences (all positive) in using BibleWorks to read through Septuagint text. (I'm still in version 8, but other than the fourth column and a Tov-Polak update, I'm not aware of LXX-specific changes in BW9. Of course, being able to see LXX manuscripts is probably pretty great.)

I'd be curious to hear others' thoughts and experiences... especially if there are some "senior members" out there who are getting even more mileage out of BibleWorks for LXX reading and study! :)

MGVH
07-16-2012, 12:09 PM
Thanks for the review you provide on your site showing how you use BibleWorks and the LXX.

Just a few things I can add:

I often find it helpful to compare the LXX not only to the Hebrew but the Aramaic Targums and the Latin Vulgate. In addition to the original language texts of both, there are English translations of the Targums, and one can consult the Douay-Rheim English translation (DRA) to get a good approximation of the Latin.
As you note, Brenton's English translation of the LXX is available in BW. There is also a free, downloadable update of Brenton I think is more helpful: Apostlesí Bible, Paul Espositoís update of Brentonís translation of the Septuagint (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/version/apb.zip) (http://majoritytext.com)
In the External Resources Manager (ERMIE) in BW, look under "Introductions and Gateways" > LXX. There probably is only one resource listed there now, but I have added to it a link to the New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS) page. http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/ You can download free PDF files of these excellent English translations.
While in ERMIE, you might also want to add links to editions of the LXX by Swete and by Brooke/McLean/Thackeray (Cambridge LXX). I have links here (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2008/07/books-you-should-download.html).
You noted that Conybeare's LXX Grammar is part of BW. You can also download Smythís Greek Grammar (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/module/smyth.zip) (a work in progress) by Michael Hanel. A classical Greek grammar is helpful for the LXX.
You noted access to A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint, Volumes 1 & 2 (Lust, Eynikel, Hauspie, Chamberlain) in BW, but note that due to licensing issues, it needs to be purchased if you aren't upgrading from BW7. It's also helpful to have the abridged version of Liddell-Scott lexicon which is in BW, but remember that you also have a right-click link to the full LSJ at Perseus. Thayer's lexicon in BW can also be useful sometimes.
One program improvement in BW9 is the "Use" tab. It's a quick way to see how a word is used.


That's what I can think of for now!

AbramKJ
07-16-2012, 03:15 PM
Hi, Mark--thanks for these! This is awesome. I have used ERMIE for NETS and completely forgot to mention it on the review. I do find the .pdf files there a bit unwieldy to use with BibleWorks, but at least they're there for free if I need them.

And these other resources are great to have in mind. This will enhance my LXX reading.

In what way did Paul Esposito "update" Brenton?

MGVH
07-16-2012, 03:52 PM
The Esposito update is built on Brenton, but from what I can tell:

Some punctuation is updated (hyphens or not) or corrected
Some singular/plural issues addressed so that English matches the Greek
Some vocab updates (eg. "cattle" instead of "quadrupeds")
Some spelling matters (eg, Eden instead of Edem)
Thee/Thou > You
APB does not include Apocrypha

AbramKJ
07-17-2012, 08:46 AM
That sounds great! I'll check it out.

When I right click on a word (Mark, you were talking about the TLG site, right?), I get this message, from this url (looking up "logos" in John 1:1): http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/inst/textsearch?s_param=lo/gos&uid=0&form=simple&GreekFont=Unicode&selectmaxhits=100&context=0&authslen=3&authsindex=0&authors=0003,0032,4145,&textualsearch=Textual%20Search

Do I need to reconfigure something, or am I looking in the wrong place?


Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /inst/textsearch on this server.
Apache/2.0.63 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.0.63 OpenSSL/0.9.8l DAV/2 PHP/5.3.2 Server at stephanus.tlg.uci.edu Port 80

MGVH
07-17-2012, 03:20 PM
@AbramKJ
TLG isn't real helpful at this point. I am meaning the Perseus site which provides access to the full Liddell-Scott-Jones and a host of other useful features. (I've made so many mods to my BW that I can't recall what comes as a default or what I've added.)

See the pic below for the settings for your External Link Manager.

In the line for Web page... you should have this. (Make sure there are no spaces in the line)
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=<dummy>&la=greek#lexicon

Michael Hanel
07-17-2012, 04:21 PM
That sounds great! I'll check it out.

When I right click on a word (Mark, you were talking about the TLG site, right?), I get this message, from this url (looking up "logos" in John 1:1): http://stephanus.tlg.uci.edu/inst/textsearch?s_param=lo/gos&uid=0&form=simple&GreekFont=Unicode&selectmaxhits=100&context=0&authslen=3&authsindex=0&authors=0003,0032,4145,&textualsearch=Textual%20Search

Do I need to reconfigure something, or am I looking in the wrong place?

To my knowledge, the TLG rendition of the LSJ (which is available at this link (http://www.tlg.uci.edu/lsj/#eid=1&context=lsj), even if you don't have an institutional membership) is less ideal than the Perseus version (which Mark posted about above) because BW can't feed it the proper form. It will only look up a word if you give it the correct dictionary form in Unicode.

Mark Eddy
07-17-2012, 07:49 PM
Of course, the ideal solution to using the full LSJ is just to buy it in its native BibleWorks form, if you have the money. If you want to do LXX study, the only alternative to LEH for many LXX words would be LSJM. And with the way BibleWorks links various spellings of a Greek lemma (via the Greek alias file), the native BibleWorks version of LSJM is the way to go.
Mark Eddy

Michael Hanel
07-17-2012, 08:26 PM
Of course, the ideal solution to using the full LSJ is just to buy it in its native BibleWorks form, if you have the money. If you want to do LXX study, the only alternative to LEH for many LXX words would be LSJM. And with the way BibleWorks links various spellings of a Greek lemma (via the Greek alias file), the native BibleWorks version of LSJM is the way to go.
Mark Eddy

Well, of course that's the ideal solution, but some folks haven't decided one Greek lexicon is more important than a few nights out at a restaurant. :)

To be fair, however, the online versions of LSJ have one feature that BW does not have with their LSJM, namely the ability to click and go to the classical text cited. That's not nothing either. I've tried to make a lot of classical texts available on the unofficial BibleWorks Blog, but you still can't get that quick click from the lexicon to the text.