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Donald Cobb
04-03-2012, 02:24 AM
Hello all,

Using BW9, I'm trying to build a list of NT verbs in the perfect tense, indicative mood. Using the Morphology assistant allows me to find the verbs as they appear in the NT, but I'm especially interested in sorting out the data, and building it into a list, i.e., something like this:
γράφω 70x
οἶδα 213x
ἵστημι 27x
etc.
It would also be nice to be able to build a list like this that distinguishes between active and m-p uses, although that may be asking to much...

Related to this, I'm wondering if there's any way to show this data on the stats tab.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!

MGVH
04-03-2012, 02:02 PM
You want "to build a list of NT verbs in the perfect tense, indicative mood."

Switch to BNM version > On command line: BNM Enter
Make sure you clear your limits > On command line: L Enter
Find all perfect indicatives > .*@vix* Enter
Open the Word List Manager (WLM): either via button bar or menu: Tools > Analyzing the Text > Word List Manager
In WLM, click on "Load or Generate Word List"
In the "Create Word List" box that opens, choose:

Version: BNM
Source: Load Highlighted Words from last query
Verse Range: Check "Use Search Window limits"
Other options: UNcheck all the boxes
Click "Create List"


There you go!

To find all active forms, repeat steps using: .*@vixa*
To find all Mid/Pass forms, repeat using: .*@vix[mp]*

The stats window is not intended to graph usage of words across the Bible. It's just for number of hits in book/chapter/verse.

Donald Cobb
04-04-2012, 12:31 AM
You want "to build a list of NT verbs in the perfect tense, indicative mood."
Switch to BNM version > On command line: BNM Enter
Make sure you clear your limits > On command line: L Enter
Find all perfect indicatives > .*@vix* Enter
Open the Word List Manager (WLM): either via button bar or menu: Tools > Analyzing the Text > Word List Manager
In WLM, click on "Load or Generate Word List"
In the "Create Word List" box that opens, choose:
Version: BNM
Source: Load Highlighted Words from last query
Verse Range: Check "Use Search Window limits"
Other options: UNcheck all the boxes
Click "Create List"

There you go!

To find all active forms, repeat steps using: .*@vixa*
To find all Mid/Pass forms, repeat using: .*@vix[mp]*

The stats window is not intended to graph usage of words across the Bible. It's just for number of hits in book/chapter/verse.

Thank you! This is exactly what I was trying to do! I was missing the step with the word list manager, though.

As for the stats tab, I figured it was probably stretching things a bit, but thought I'd ask anyway. One never knows. Perhaps it can be an idea for BW 10...

MBushell
04-05-2012, 02:03 PM
There are multiple ways to do most things in BibleWorks. In this case a new feature was added a couple of weeks ago that answers this request, with the added plus of adding glosses:

1. Select BNM and activate the Words tab
2. Activate accent sensitive searching (right click on command line)
3. enter .*@vix* on the command line. Note that since the * key doubles as an accent, when in accent sensitive mode you have to press the insert key before typing the *.
4. press return
5. activate the
6. right click on the Wildcard expansion pane in the words tab and select "copy list to editor"
7. Wallah! This is probably French but I don't know how to spell it

οἶδα, to know [215]
γράφω, to write [69]
γίνομαι, to become, be [47]
δίδωμι, to give [36]
ὁράω, to see [30]
ἵστημι, to cause to stand, stand [20]
γινώσκω, to come to know, learn, know, realize [19]
ἔρχομαι, to come, go [17]
λέγω, to say, speak [17]
etc.

DavidR
04-05-2012, 04:51 PM
Spectacular!

The French word you're looking for is voilà (pronounced "vwah - la"), more or less equivalent to ἰδοὺ in its origins.

MGVH
04-05-2012, 09:18 PM
Thanks, Michael. I remember that you reported on that feature a bit ago.
Question: the way you provided appears to provide accurate counts when search the whole NT. When I apply any search limit, however, I get results that don't make sense to me.
E.g., for perfect indicatives in the NT, most common (as your search generated) is: οἶδα, to know [215]
If I set my limit to Mark and run the same search it says that most common is: οἶδα, to know [204]
There are actually only 13 uses of the indicative perfect of οἶδα in Mark, so what is that 204 counting?

Donald Cobb
04-06-2012, 01:26 AM
There are multiple ways to do most things in BibleWorks. In this case a new feature was added a couple of weeks ago that answers this request, with the added plus of adding glosses:

1. Select BNM and activate the Words tab
2. Activate accent sensitive searching (right click on command line)
3. enter .*@vix* on the command line. Note that since the * key doubles as an accent, when in accent sensitive mode you have to press the insert key before typing the *.
4. press return
5. activate the
6. right click on the Wildcard expansion pane in the words tab and select "copy list to editor"
7. Wallah! This is probably French but I don't know how to spell it

οἶδα, to know [215]
γράφω, to write [69]
γίνομαι, to become, be [47]
δίδωμι, to give [36]
ὁράω, to see [30]
ἵστημι, to cause to stand, stand [20]
γινώσκω, to come to know, learn, know, realize [19]
ἔρχομαι, to come, go [17]
λέγω, to say, speak [17]
etc.

Yes, this is very nice. I had already noticed that the Wildcard box in the verse tab compiled the list, but hadn't tried copying it to the editor. I haven't gotten the glosses, but perhaps that's in an update that I haven't yet downloaded.

I had also noticed, as Mark Hoffman mentioned, that the stats in the Wildcard expansion don't seem trustworthy when book limits are applied (I tried the same thing for the Gospel of John, and οἶδα went from 215 in the NT to 212 in John... as opposed to 61 times when the search is done with .οιδα@vixa*).

One other issue with this function: living and working in France means I use a French keyboard. BW9 improves on BW7 in this regard, as it "remembers" from one session to the other that my default keyboard French (thanks! It was a bit of a pain setting it back to French each time I opened a session). However, I notice that when I export the results of the Wildcard expansion to the editor, the English default overrides the French keyboard... and I'm back to having to reset it to French. Either that or writing "voilq" each time! (qwerty and not azerty) :-)

Regards and blessings during this Easter season,

Don Cobb

MBushell
04-06-2012, 12:19 PM
Hi All,

I investigated this and posted a new executable to address part of the "issue". It's complicated:

When you select the option to hide morphology codes in the Words Tab for the search and wildcard expansion panes, what the program does is simply collapse the items with the same lemma into one list item adding up the counts as the words are collapsed. The problem was that items with mutiple parsings (like pd/pg) are double counted. I fixed the code so that double parsings are not counted twice. So the stats should match the search stats now.

The other problems is the way stats are reported if you have search limits on. To see what is happening you have to understand that the numbers beside the words in the Words tab are whole version stats and do not account for search limits. You can see what is going on by turning off the option to prune the morph codes. However, the actual word+code entries in the wildcard expansion and search word panes DO account for the search limits. If a word+code pair does not occur in the limit range, the word will not appear. So when you collaspe the codes, it is adding up only the word+code pairs that appear in the range. What this means is that the numbers beside the collapsed entries are not wrong, but not very useful either.

If you want to explore what is going on do a wild card search on a simple word like eggus@*. It has few occurrences but does have entries with multiple parsings. Do the search with collapsed and uncollapsed forms.

The quest probably occues as to why we don't just modify the hit counts by each word when search limits are on so they reflect the limits. The answe is that this information is not available on the fly. It would require doing a rabge limited search on eac word as it is displayed and that would take a long, long time. You would not be very happy with the responsiveness. The word frequency occurrence of each lemma+code pair is stored in the version data so it is easy to display on the fly.

Hope this makes a little sense.

Mike

Donald Cobb
04-09-2012, 12:47 AM
Hi All,

I investigated this and posted a new executable to address part of the "issue". It's complicated:

When you select the option to hide morphology codes in the Words Tab for the search and wildcard expansion panes, what the program does is simply collapse the items with the same lemma into one list item adding up the counts as the words are collapsed. The problem was that items with mutiple parsings (like pd/pg) are double counted. I fixed the code so that double parsings are not counted twice. So the stats should match the search stats now.

The other problems is the way stats are reported if you have search limits on. To see what is happening you have to understand that the numbers beside the words in the Words tab are whole version stats and do not account for search limits. You can see what is going on by turning off the option to prune the morph codes. However, the actual word+code entries in the wildcard expansion and search word panes DO account for the search limits. If a word+code pair does not occur in the limit range, the word will not appear. So when you collaspe the codes, it is adding up only the word+code pairs that appear in the range. What this means is that the numbers beside the collapsed entries are not wrong, but not very useful either.

If you want to explore what is going on do a wild card search on a simple word like eggus@*. It has few occurrences but does have entries with multiple parsings. Do the search with collapsed and uncollapsed forms.

The quest probably occues as to why we don't just modify the hit counts by each word when search limits are on so they reflect the limits. The answe is that this information is not available on the fly. It would require doing a rabge limited search on eac word as it is displayed and that would take a long, long time. You would not be very happy with the responsiveness. The word frequency occurrence of each lemma+code pair is stored in the version data so it is easy to display on the fly.

Hope this makes a little sense.

Mike

I won't say I understand everything... But thanks for the work! It gives an idea of the usefulness of the stats tab and its limits, at least for the time being. I'll download the update.

Again, Thanks!

Donald Cobb
Aix-en-Provence, France

ISalzman
04-09-2012, 09:02 AM
Hey Donald, I couldn't help but notice the Aix-en-Provence address. Are you at the seminary there? Years ago, in Marseille, I met a guy who taught at the seminary: Fredric Beaudin. I wonder if he's still there. Soyez beni!

Irving

Donald Cobb
04-10-2012, 12:47 PM
Hey Donald, I couldn't help but notice the Aix-en-Provence address. Are you at the seminary there? Years ago, in Marseille, I met a guy who taught at the seminary: Fredric Beaudin. I wonder if he's still there. Soyez beni!

Irving


Hello Irving,

Yes, indeed, I am at the Seminary and having been teaching New Testament here since 2004. Several years before that I was a student (going back to the late 80's and early 90's). Interestingly, Fred Baudin was studying at the same time and we followed several of the same classes. He did do some teaching in the early 90s (Hebrew) and worked on the recruiting end for a while as well. He's now a pastor in a church here in Aix. I don't often have the opportunity to see him, but if I do, I'll certainly mention you to him!

Je vous souhaite aussi beaucoup de bénédictions !

Donald Cobb
Aix-en-Provence, France

ISalzman
04-10-2012, 02:21 PM
That is great, Donald. What a beautiful area. I will never forget the two weeks I spent in Marseille in the summer of 1994. (I spent two weeks in Paris as well at the Bible Institute in Nogent-sur-Marne.) I was on a missions trip to bring the good news of Jesus the Messiah to the Jews of France. Marseille was a profoundly interesting place. In 1994, the population of Marseille was 1,000,000, 100,000 of whom were Jewish, and 100,000 of whom were Muslim. We had a great opportunity to share with both groups. I'd love to go back. But France was not the easiest place in the world to share the gospel. We take a lot of our freedoms here in the US for granted. Blessings on your ministry in the seminary.