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Yaku Lee
08-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Hi,

I am running BW9 on Windows XP, and I cannot search for any “passive participle” with the search version WTM.

For example, entering “ .*@v?s*” on CL, I get the following error message:

The following word or form cannot be found in the current search version: *@v?s*

Do you get the same error message?

Thanks.

bkMitchell
08-03-2011, 01:14 AM
Do you get the same error message?

Hello Yaku Lee,

I got the same error message both on the command line and in the morphological assistant when running the query post above.
I am using BibleWorks9 on Windows7 ultimate edition JP.

Glenn Weaver
08-03-2011, 10:49 AM
I have sent a note to our lead programmer asking for clarification on this matter, but in the meantime, does a search using the codes .*@vyP* accomplish the proper search?

Blessings,
Glenn

bobvenem
08-03-2011, 11:54 AM
I have sent a note to our lead programmer asking for clarification on this matter, but in the meantime, does a search using the codes .*@vyP* accomplish the proper search?

No, but .*@vy* finds them.

Nick Laurence
09-13-2011, 06:42 PM
By coincidence I tried searching for these in the same way as the original post (except I was trying .*@vqs) with the same negative result. Searching the forum I found this thread... very helpful.

However I find .*@vyP* does work (now?), and indeed this restricts the returns to participles (without the P, i.e. .*@vy* you get passive perfects in the returns as well).

MBushell
09-15-2011, 04:17 PM
By coincidence I tried searching for these in the same way as the original post (except I was trying .*@vqs) with the same negative result. Searching the forum I found this thread... very helpful.

However I find .*@vyP* does work (now?), and indeed this restricts the returns to participles (without the P, i.e. .*@vy* you get passive perfects in the returns as well).

This is the correct answer. Thanks ALL. The 's' code is a holdover from a previous version of WTM. The syntax was changed at one point. I don't really remember why, but the help file and syntax helper were apparently not changed when that occurred.

Mike

Yaku Lee
09-16-2011, 12:21 AM
This is the correct answer. Thanks ALL. The 's' code is a holdover from a previous version of WTM. The syntax was changed at one point. I don't really remember why, but the help file and syntax helper were apparently not changed when that occurred.

Mike
It is really nice to know that there is an answer from a BW staff to a difficult question.

Thank you very much, Mike.

curtmcc
08-22-2012, 12:43 AM
There's a bit going on in the language, here -- however BW has chosen to exhibit it.

Jouon-Muraoka, section 50 paragraph c, footnote 4 explains that the Qal passive ptcp WITH THE VOWEL PATTERN A-U, is the "only surviving passive in Qal." However, there are "vestiges" of an ancient Qal passive beyond that.
In J-M 58b, it explains these "vestiges". But note that these have THE VOWEL PATTERN U-A (not A-U).

As I am running BW8 (updated to the latest version as of today 21-Aug-2012 [and I note that the behavior has changed since the last time I updated, which was some while ago]), I'm not positive it behaves the same in BW9, but I find that BW8 uses
.*@vqs* [that is, the 's' tag for conjugation] to identify the U-A vowel pattern Qal passives (and hence, only participles);
.*@vy* [that is, the 'y' tag for binyan] to identify the A-U vowel pattern Qal passives (of which there are perfects, imperfects, waw-cons forms, and 4 participles).

Note finally that J-M 58a, the final 2 sentences, asserts that there are some Nifal-pointed forms that should really be read as Qal passives. These are tagged as Nifals in BW's WTM and therefore do not show up in the above search commands.

FYI,
Curt

curtmcc
08-22-2012, 01:33 AM
There's a bit going on in the language, here -- however BW has chosen to exhibit it.


Jouon-Muraoka, section 50 paragraph c, footnote 4 explains that the Qal passive ptcp WITH THE VOWEL PATTERN A-U, is the "only surviving passive in Qal." However, there are "vestiges" of an ancient Qal passive beyond that.
In J-M 58b, it explains these "vestiges". But note that these have THE VOWEL PATTERN U-A (not A-U).


As I am running BW8 (updated to the latest version as of today 21-Aug-2012 [and I note that the behavior has changed since the last time I updated, which was some while ago]), I'm not positive it behaves the same in BW9, but I find that BW8 uses
.*@vqs* [that is, the 's' tag for conjugation] to identify the A-U vowel pattern Qal passives (and hence, only participles);
.*@vy* [that is, the 'y' tag for binyan] to identify the U-A vowel pattern Qal passives (of which there are perfects, imperfects, waw-cons forms, and 4 participles).


Note finally that J-M 58a, the final 2 sentences, asserts that there are some Nifal-pointed forms that should really be read as Qal passives. These are tagged as Nifals in BW's WTM and therefore do not show up in the above search commands.


FYI,
Curt