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View Full Version : BW9: Is it worth an upgrade from BW8?



dhave
08-01-2011, 05:09 PM
I've been using BW for six or seven years and have been pretty faithful in following the upgrade path. This time around (i.e., with the release of BW9), I'm not so eager, in part because I'm watching my budget more carefully. I guess I'm willing to be persuaded, though.

My question: do you think an upgrade from BW8 to BW9 is worth it? Please provide specifics.

Thank you.

Dan Phillips
08-01-2011, 07:24 PM
I'll just add, sidewise, that I wonder if the BW folks are their own worst enemies simply because BW8 is such a terrific, terrific product. I remember when notes were first introduced -- wasn't that about BW6? The whole was a little buggy, and there had to be frequent updates to address issues. But about with 7 they were stabilized and put on steroids. Then 8 was gilding the lily, if that's the expression. I think one can be forgiven for wondering how such a great version can be improved on.

I look forward to finding out by experience, as well as reading others' thoughts.

Sansom48
08-01-2011, 08:20 PM
I think that it matters on what you are hoping to do. I personally think that this has been the best update I have seen them do. I used version 3.5, 5, 7,8, and now 9. However, I also tend to focus on the Greek Text, and have been eagerly waiting for a good textual critical apparatus to come out other than NA. This newest addition adds the CNTTS database, as well as the Manuscript project which make textual criticism easier to understand and closer to the original manuscripts. I have also found myself using the "use" tab quite a bit. So for me, this was a worthy update, but I have read others on these forums who focus mainly on the Hebrew and for them they do not see upgrade as good for them.

Dan Phillips
08-01-2011, 10:45 PM
...I also tend to focus on the Greek Text, and have been eagerly waiting for a good textual critical apparatus to come out other than NA. This newest addition adds the CNTTS database, as well as the Manuscript project which make textual criticism easier to understand and closer to the original manuscripts.

So, has it helped you figure out that whole ending-of-Mark thingie?

(c;

bkMitchell
08-02-2011, 02:46 AM
...do you think an upgrade from BW8 to BW9 is worth it?
Yes, I do!


Please provide specifics.
Firstly, I personally would like to support what I believe BibleWorks is trying to. I am well aware that BW is a business rather than a non-profit, but their vision to disseminate broadly, and promote the use of the very texts that the early communities of faith used without any extra cost is one worthwhile. Purchasing an upgrade (or licensing BW9) is one way to help support the continuation of this project. The Manuscript project in time may very well come to include Hebrew and Aramaic texts if this great work is able to continue.

Secondly, if you study the NT, use it in ministry, or teach it you really owe it to yourself to get BibleWorks9! Version9 offers even more high quality tools to help you rightly divide the word of truth and come to your own conclusion concerning the evidence. Not, only will you be able to consult the CNTTS apparatus, but you will also be provided with the tools to checkout it's citations in form of manuscript transcription and images. It you have difficulty deciphering the apparatus and variants with a few clicks you can find help and translations. The study notes from the NET Bible, The notes from the ESV(should you chose to add it), the textual commentary of the NT, and Tischendorf apparatus are now provided in the new 'verse tab' and scroll right along with any Greek (or any other Bible version or translation). Yes, some of these tools were provided before but not in the same-way. Even, more Greek NT texts have been added to an already incredible lineup!

Thirdly, the Westminster Hebrew Morphology 4.14 is now provided. It may not seem like a big deal, but not all Bible-software companies offer upgrades to the WHM. BibleWorks, then is offering the latest scholarship and corrections of Hebrew morphology to learned world. If, you run queries on the WHM, then I really believe that this is worth the upgrade price alone.

Fourthly, if you are studying the difference between various texts you can now simply click a button and the differences between texts will be highlighted. I use this tool a lot and like it. (There was a way to do this before but it required a lot more steps)

And, finally the icons have been updated!
Of course BW's has done a whole lot more and it may be better just to check the their homepage as well as watching a few videos. BUT please keep in mind this represents my opinion(s); meaning you do not have to agree with me on the issue(s).

bobvenem
08-02-2011, 08:21 AM
I haven't seen it mentioned any place else, but included as part of the manuscript project are the transcription and morphology marking tools used by the BW staff.

YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN MANUSCRIPT TRANSCRIPTIONS AND MORPHOLOGY VERSIONS!!!

Michael Hanel
08-02-2011, 09:27 AM
I haven't seen it mentioned any place else, but included as part of the manuscript project are the transcription and morphology marking tools used by the BW staff.

YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN MANUSCRIPT TRANSCRIPTIONS AND MORPHOLOGY VERSIONS!!!

Not to toot my own horn Bob, but you must have missed it (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=936).

dhave
08-02-2011, 01:22 PM
Brian, thanks for your detailed response. It was very helpful.

On a lighter note, you wrote:


Yes, I do!

"... BibleWorks9! Version9 offers even more high quality tools to help you rightly divide the word of truth and come to your own concussion concerning the evidence.

I know this was a typo, but it happens to be a perfect description of how I have sometimes felt after spending hours on end trying to work through an exegetical problem!

bkMitchell
08-02-2011, 08:20 PM
Brian, thanks for your detailed response. It was very helpful.

AND, thank you for mentioning my typo I have fixed it but, it was rather funny:o as long as it didn't scare anyone.
Please, take it easy on those exegetical essays.

bobvenem
08-03-2011, 10:57 AM
Not to toot my own horn Bob, but you must have missed it (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=936).

The lesson, as always: PAY ATTENTION!

SCSaunders
08-04-2011, 07:54 AM
Yes, I do!

Firstly [Alpha], ... And, finally [Omega].... Very well said. Enthused with education, experience and passion. IMO.

SteveO
08-05-2011, 12:13 AM
I would upgrade but I JUST got BibleWorks 8 the middle of March (I missed the $99.00 upgrade offer by 12 days, I think :(). I just can't see spending another $150.00 after < 6 mos from buying 8. Sigh.

-sdo

brainout
04-08-2012, 02:55 PM
Yes, I do!


Firstly, I personally would like to support what I believe BibleWorks is trying to. I am well aware that BW is a business rather than a non-profit, but their vision to disseminate broadly, and promote the use of the very texts that the early communities of faith used without any extra cost is one worthwhile. Purchasing an upgrade (or licensing BW9) is one way to help support the continuation of this project. The Manuscript project in time may very well come to include Hebrew and Aramaic texts if this great work is able to continue.

Secondly, if you study the NT, use it in ministry, or teach it you really owe it to yourself to get BibleWorks9! Version9 offers even more high quality tools to help you rightly divide the word of truth and come to your own conclusion concerning the evidence. Not, only will you be able to consult the CNTTS apparatus, but you will also be provided with the tools to checkout it's citations in form of manuscript transcription and images. It you have difficulty deciphering the apparatus and variants with a few clicks you can find help and translations. The study notes from the NET Bible, The notes from the ESV(should you chose to add it), the textual commentary of the NT, and Tischendorf apparatus are now provided in the new 'verse tab' and scroll right along with any Greek (or any other Bible version or translation). Yes, some of these tools were provided before but not in the same-way. Even, more Greek NT texts have been added to an already incredible lineup!

Thirdly, the Westminster Hebrew Morphology 4.14 is now provided. It may not seem like a big deal, but not all Bible-software companies offer upgrades to the WHM. BibleWorks, then is offering the latest scholarship and corrections of Hebrew morphology to learned world. If, you run queries on the WHM, then I really believe that this is worth the upgrade price alone.

Fourthly, if you are studying the difference between various texts you can now simply click a button and the differences between texts will be highlighted. I use this tool a lot and like it. (There was a way to do this before but it required a lot more steps)

And, finally the icons have been updated!
Of course BW's has done a whole lot more and it may be better just to check the their homepage as well as watching a few videos. BUT please keep in mind this represents my opinion(s); meaning you do not have to agree with me on the issue(s).

I whole-heartedly agree! BW8 was a great upgrade, but it changed the interface, which made me put off buying it for years. Then after buying it, I only used the modules I also purchased, buying a whole new BW8 rather than just an upgrade. Because, like you, I want to support BW with my life. It is my life. I can't easily follow my pastor's exegesis well without it. I can't live without it, and don't want to. BW and hot sauce!

But the BW8 interface change turned out not to be the problem, really -- instead, the biggest problems were a) the fact that the TSK database is no longer a subset of the Auto-Info Window, a fabulous tool I use in my BW5 videos on Youtube; b) the cut-and-paste function in BW8 is now quirky. You can make it work, but yesterday it took me three hours to figure out how. In BW5 it was easy. But you can make it work in BW8.

So how can you not want to go with BW9, since now you can get the CODICES??? That's the raw material from which all the TC stuff, is compiled in our software editions.

Final point: from all the study of Bible I've been enabled to do, I get one big doctrinal point: when, in history, interest in Bible fades, the Bible becomes HARD TO GET. By contrast, when interest in Bible rises, it becomes EASY TO GET. WE MUST VOTE FOR BIBLE AVAILABILITY. So if we vote to get BibleWorks (or any software, really, but one should support the better versions) -- you're voting for world prosperity, as an adjunct. Big concern in BibleWorks help is to remind you that electronic editions might not stay available. Yeah, if we don't vote, we'll lose them! So let's all VOTE. Satan can't undo the internet, if enough people are voting to learn Bible, THROUGH it! So the electronic editions can be upgraded too, despite all the hassle we're encountering with Windows not being backwards-compatible, etc. VOTE VOTE VOTE is the number #1 message in Bible, from what I can tell. God won't violate free will, since HE IS Free Will.

Everything in life depends on voting to be pro-Bible. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God, right? If we don't vote to GET BIBLE in the original mss., it will be again trapped by elites who will put their 'spin' on Bible in some translation, locking away the original from us. Who wants that? Remember what the KJV translators said in their preface click here (http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref7.htm) and here (http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref8.htm) and especially their 'oracle' sarcasm, click here (http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref10.htm)?

God will provide the money. I am a testimony to that; two years ago I had $2 in my bank account, but wanted BW8. Now, well: I have no money problems. And frankly, BW software is worth thousands more than what we pay.

God will protect the Jews. Over the years I've been studying the trend in Bible disinterest and Jewish persecution. They run together. When people became disinterested in Bible in the 2nd century, it got relegated to the growing elites, and they started to persecute the Jews. A guy named Tim Dowley compiled something he calls the Atlas of Bible and Christianity, which maps the historical persecutions (not his main point, but an important one). If you compare that, with the historical tracing of Bible's formats in Christopher DeHamel's The Book: A History of the Bible (both books available at Amazon), you'll notice that when the Bible was made easier to read or easier to buy, the persecutions faded. When it periodically became harder to get or harder to read, the persecutions rose.

For if you care about Bible, you care about the Jews. And when you don't care about Scripture, it's easier to justify persecuting the Jews. From what I can tell so far, these trends run in 200-year cycles, with our current cycle (started in the 1800's), coming to an end. And Bible interest is polarized now, with idiots like the KJVO people, at one end, trying to destroy the mss in favor of the KJV 1611; versus, the other end, simple users like us wanting to learn the Words Jesus Learned and Spoke and gave the apostles to write. So this impacts history. The Arabs are out to destroy the Jews, it's Article One in the PLO Charter. So if we want Bible in the mss., that supports the Jews and history, too. Christ wasn't kidding when He said we're the salt of the earth. I've spent the last 11 years finding proof of that in terms of real time purchased during every 490 years, as a Bible doctrine Christians (and Jews too) don't know about. So let's vote! World depends on it! End commercial message.

DavidR
04-08-2012, 09:38 PM
Thank for your reminding us of the importance of the availability of the biblical text. I have been blessed to have Jewish teachers in my lifetime, and I believe the state of Israel is a good thing. However, a little deeper history lesson is in order. "The Arabs" are not all out to destroy "the Jews," and Arab hostility to Israel did not begin until the Jewish state began expansive moves against the homes and farms of very ordinary people in Palestine. It is vital, if the Jewish state is to survive, not to oversimplify, and not to let other people oversimplify things for us. The Jews have suffered much, most of it at Christian (not Muslim) hands. But in the last decades the Palestinian people have suffered much too. Some of their claims have justice behind them, and God is just. A lasting Jewish state can only exist next to a lasting Palestinian state; the notion that any nation can live in a perpetual state of war with hostile neighbors has no basis in either history or theology.

But frankly, I don't believe this whole discussion has any place in this forum, and I will gladly accept a moderator's moving it elsewhere!

brainout
04-08-2012, 11:40 PM
Thank for your reminding us of the importance of the availability of the biblical text. I have been blessed to have Jewish teachers in my lifetime, and I believe the state of Israel is a good thing. However, a little deeper history lesson is in order. "The Arabs" are not all out to destroy "the Jews," and Arab hostility to Israel did not begin until the Jewish state began expansive moves against the homes and farms of very ordinary people in Palestine. It is vital, if the Jewish state is to survive, not to oversimplify, and not to let other people oversimplify things for us. The Jews have suffered much, most of it at Christian (not Muslim) hands. But in the last decades the Palestinian people have suffered much too. Some of their claims have justice behind them, and God is just. A lasting Jewish state can only exist next to a lasting Palestinian state; the notion that any nation can live in a perpetual state of war with hostile neighbors has no basis in either history or theology.

But frankly, I don't believe this whole discussion has any place in this forum, and I will gladly accept a moderator's moving it elsewhere!

Well, let's just cap that side point here. If you want to debate it, we can start a thread in the Non-Bibleworks discussion subforum. I didn't say what I said to start a debate on the point, but just to stick to what Scripture says about protecting the Jews as a determinant of history, i.e., Genesis 12, 15, 17. And yes I'd love to debate it with you, but not here. :)

DavidR
04-09-2012, 10:05 AM
I don't really have the time or the inclination for a debate. Just wanted to put the counterpoint out there. Enough said for this context!

brainout
04-09-2012, 10:10 AM
Very True, DavidR!