PDA

View Full Version : Cross references to verses with related Greek words (includes Apocrypha) in BW9



Joan Korte
07-03-2011, 04:03 PM
This is listed as one of the new things in BW9 here:

http://www.bibleworks.com/content/new.html

I am having trouble understanding or even picturing what this means. :confused:

Michael Hanel
07-03-2011, 07:31 PM
This is listed as one of the new things in BW9 here:

http://www.bibleworks.com/content/new.html

I am having trouble understanding or even picturing what this means. :confused:

It's on my list Joan!

Mark Eddy
07-03-2011, 11:35 PM
While Michael works on a more detailed description, I think that "Cross references to verses with related Greek words (includes Apocrypha)" might refer to the new "Use" tab. When this tab is open, when you put the cursor over a Greek word in the browse window, all occurences of that word in the given version will display on the use tab (or this can be limited to a given book). This is basically a quicker way of seeing a list of verses which contain a lemma than the standard method of right-clicking on a word and choosing "search on lemma." It works the same way in all Greek and Hebrew databases with morphological companions. This "Use" tab can also be set to show only the exact form under the cursor (not the lemma). In that case it is like right-clicking on a word and choosing "Search on form." This latter function is not limited to Greek and Hebrew, but applies to any language which is not "double byte" (e.g. Chinese). The effect is that you get a list of cross-references.
If the emphasis is on "related Greek words," meaning 'not the same lemma,' then I guess that this refers to a new database for the X-Refs tab called "BW-RVT". BW9 Help describes this as: "Based on running the Related Verses Tool (gathering verses with the same lemmas) over the BGM Bible version."
The description in the BW9 notice does make it sound something like Louw-Nida's semantic domains expanded over the entire Greek OT and NT with verse references added. But that is not what it is.
Mark Eddy

Joan Korte
07-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Michael and Mark,
Thank you for your responses. I am in a "what's up with this" mood. :D I will await Michael's blog.

God Bless!

Michael Hanel
07-04-2011, 03:45 PM
Michael and Mark,
Thank you for your responses. I am in a "what's up with this" mood. :D I will await Michael's blog.

God Bless!

Okay Joan, I even bumped this one up in schedule just for you: BW-RVT Cross-references (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=879).

Joan Korte
07-05-2011, 09:24 AM
Thanks, Michael. It was very good!

ISalzman
07-05-2011, 10:19 AM
Hey Michael, with Joan, I too agree that your post was excellently written. I have a question though. You wrote in your blog post:

"The BW-RVT X-ref database is kind of an experimental database. What it does is gather all verses in the entire BGM (so that covers OT, NT and Apocrypha) that are similar to the verse you are currently looking at by the criterion of sharing Greek lemmas..."

Here's my question (I can't seem to turn off the Bold, for some reason.): For OT verses, would the BW-RVT x-ref database really work with BGM too? My preference would be that it would work with WTM. So, grateful for any clarification. Thanks. Irving

Michael Hanel
07-05-2011, 10:27 AM
Hey Michael, with Joan, I too agree that your post was excellently written. I have a question though. You wrote in your blog post:

"The BW-RVT X-ref database is kind of an experimental database. What it does is gather all verses in the entire BGM (so that covers OT, NT and Apocrypha) that are similar to the verse you are currently looking at by the criterion of sharing Greek lemmas..."

Here's my question (I can't seem to turn off the Bold, for some reason.): For OT verses, would the BW-RVT x-ref database really work with BGM too? My preference would be that it would work with WTM. So, grateful for any clarification. Thanks. Irving


Irving, currently it works using only the BGM through the whole OT, NT and Apocrypha. But since it is a new feature, I wouldn't doubt that they are open to tweaking it. So I would say if that's what you want it to do, your best bet would be to try to make your case to them and ask if they could change it and/or add an OT version of it (because there might be some who prefer it this way). As is pretty common once the new release is out, the first priority is getting any bugs that pop up and then they look at feedback from people and see what changes need to be made.

ISalzman
07-05-2011, 10:57 AM
Thanks, Michael.

By the way, I have used the RVT quite a bit and, within the tool itself, one can choose the versions. So I know for a fact that you can get the RVT to work with WTM. It would just be nice however if the BW-RVT x-ref database would automatically check WTM for OT verses and BGM for NT verses. Or at least, provide users the ability to choose versions in the settings. But, alas, I understand; the programmers will have plenty of work with which to keep themselves occupied after the mass release of BW 9.0.

Michael Hanel
07-05-2011, 11:04 AM
Thanks, Michael.

By the way, I have used the RVT quite a bit and, within the tool itself, one can choose the versions. So I know for a fact that you can get the RVT to work with WTM. It would just be nice however if the BW-RVT x-ref database would automatically check WTM for OT verses and BGM for NT verses. Or at least, provide users the ability to choose versions in the settings. But, alas, I understand; the programmers will have plenty of work with which to keep themselves occupied after the mass release of BW 9.0.

My personal vote would be to keep the BW-RVT the way it is, but add a different Xrefs version like it that does WTM. But I'm just a "both/and" type of guy :) In any event, to me, without knowing at all how programming works, your suggestion doesn't sound too difficult :o

ISalzman
07-05-2011, 11:11 AM
Both/and would be fine with me. Or, one where you could change the settings as desired. I can see the value of searching both. But if I am studying an OT passage, I would much rather it search the WTM.

Glenn Weaver
07-06-2011, 10:10 AM
Hi Irving,

The main push behind the new BW-RVT x-refs list is to facilitate easier intertexual studies. By using the BGM as the primary version it is possible to create a list of x-refs that span from the OT, to the Apocrypha, to the NT. In this way it is possible to trace the use of verses and, to a limit amount, the development of a theme or doctrine from the OT to the Apocrypha to the NT.

One thing that was lacking in all of the x-refs lists that we currently have is that there is no mention of the Apocrypha. The BW-RVT fills this gap.

(I personally do not believe that the Apocrypha is inspired, but it is an important background text and can yield insights in the development of thought from the OT to the NT. Others may believe that the Apocrypha is, indeed, Scripture, and they will find its inclusion in a x-refs list even more important.)

As one example where the BW-RVT can be useful, when studying Rom 1:25, which contains a doxology, the BW-RVT lists a number of doxologies, including some in Tobit and 1 Esdras.

Some will choose not to use the Apocrypha references, and that is o.k., too. The related verses between the OT and NT will be useful in itself. It provides a supplemental list to the hand-edited lists found in the other x-refs lists.

A x-ref list from the WTM would be useful, though it would not span the Apocrypha and NT because of the difference in languages.

Blessings,
Glenn

ISalzman
07-06-2011, 11:00 AM
Hi Glenn,

Thanks for your post. I understand what you say fully and certainly see the value of that. All I'm saying, in addition, is that I wish there were another but similar version of the BW-RVT x-ref database that did the same search using WTM. Perhaps it could be called BW-RVT Heb x-ref database or some such name. I think that determining intertextuality in OT texts would best be served by a search of WTM and the common Hebrew lemmas in different texts. (The LXX translators didn't always use the same Greek lemma to translate the same Hebrew lemma and thus sometimes throw off "the scent" in intertextuality determinations.) To be honest, I would probably use both databases, were they available.

Blessings,

Irving

Glenn Weaver
07-06-2011, 11:29 AM
Hi Irving,

I can't promise anything, but I'll see what we can do.

Blessings,
Glenn

ISalzman
07-06-2011, 11:40 AM
Thanks so much, Glenn!

And, by the way, BW9 is awesome. It is biblical software at its best.

Warmly,

Irving