bkMitchell
11-23-2010, 11:20 PM
So, as not to take a tread (http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?4754-search-Hebrew-for-et-asher-preceded-by-a-noun-or-pronoun&p=24193#post24193) of topic in the BW General discussion section of the forums this thread in the non-BibleWorks discussion section was started to continue the interesting issues or questions raised on the other thread that did not directly deal with BibleWorks.
Hey Steve,
...I couldn't help but wonder if your motivation for the search was prompted by Zech 12:10 ("'et 'asher daqaru").
Irving
Irving,
That's amazing. Yes, you hit the nail on the head.
Can you shed any light on the meaning?
-Steve Miller
Detroit
I am not Irving, but I'll give a few of the typical answer till he gets back to you:
according to the Keil and Delitzsch commentary on the OT BW user created edition:
The suffix in אלי (to me) refers to the speaker. This is Jehovah, according to Zec 12:1, the creator of the heaven and the earth.את־אשׁר דּקרוּ, not “Him whom they pierced,” but simply “whom they pierced.”את, that is to say, is not governed by hibbı̄tū as a second object, but simply refers to אלי, to me, “whom they pierced,” את־אשׁר is chosen here, as in Jer 38:9, in the place of the simpleאשׁר, to mark אשׁר more clearly as an accusative, since the simple אשׁר might also be rendered “who pierced (me):” cf. Ges. §123, 2, Not. 1. Dâqar does not mean to ridicule, or scoff at, but only to pierce, thrust through, and to slay by any kind of death whatever (cf. Lam 4:9). And the context shows that here it signifies to put to death. With reference to the explanation proposed by Calvin, “whom they have harassed with insults,” Hitzig has very properly observed: “If it were nothing more than this, wherefore such lamentation over him, which, according to the use of ספד, with על governing the person, and from the similes employed, is to be regarded as a lamentation for the dead?” It is true that we have not to think of a slaying of Jehovah, the creator of the heaven and the earth, but simply of the slaying of the Maleach Jehovah, who, being of the same essence with Jehovah, became man in the person of Jesus Christ. As Zechariah repeatedly represents the coming of the Messiah as a coming of Jehovah in His Maleach to His people, he could, according to this view, also describe the slaying of the Maleach as the slaying of Jehovah. And Israel having come to the knowledge of its sin, will bitterly bewail this deed. עליו does not mean thereat, i.e., at the crime, but is used personally, over him whom they have pierced. Thus the transition from the first person (אלי) to the third (עליו) points to the fact that the person slain, although essentially one with Jehovah, is personally distinct from the Supreme God. The lamentation for the only son (yâshı̄d: cf. Amo 8:10) and for the first-born is the deepest and bitterest death-wail. The inf. abs. hâmēr, which is used in the place of the finite verb, signifies making bitter, to which mispēd is to be supplied from the previous sentence (cf. מספּד תּמרוּרים, Jer 6:26).
The historical fulfilment of this prophecy commenced with the crucifixion of the Son of God, who had come in the flesh. The words הבּיטוּ אלי את־אשׁר דּקרוּ are quoted in the Gospel of John (Joh 19:37), according to the Greek rendering ὄψονται εἰς ὅν ἐξεκέντησαν, which probably emanated not from the lxx, but from Aquila, or Theodotion, or Symmachus, as having been fulfilled in Christ, by the fact that a soldier pierced His side with a lance as He was hanging upon the cross (vid., Joh 19:34). If we compare this quotation with the fact mentioned in Joh 19:36, that they did not break any of His bones, there can be no doubt that John quotes this passage with distinct allusion to this special circumstance; only we must not infer from this, that the evangelist regarded the meaning of the prophecy as exhausted by this allusion. The piercing with the spear is simply looked upon by him as the climax of all the mortal sufferings of Christ; and even with Zechariah the piercing is simply an individualizing expression for putting to death, the instrument used and the kind of death being of very subordinate importance. This is evident from a comparison of our verse with Zec 13:7, where the sword is mentioned as the instrument employed, whereas dâqar points rather to a spear. What we have observed respecting the fulfilment of Zec 9:9 by the entry of Christ into Jerusalem, also applies to this special fulfilment, viz., that the so to speak literal fulfilment in the outward circumstances only served to make the internal concatenation of the prophecy with its historical realization so clear, that even unbelievers could not successfully deny it. Luke (Luk 23:48) indicates the commencement of the fulfilment of the looking at the slain one by these words: “And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts.” (For the smiting of the breasts, comp. Isa 32:12, ספד על שׁדים.) “The crowds, who had just before been crying out, Crucify him, here smite upon their breasts, being overpowered with the proofs of the superhuman exaltation of Jesus, and lament over the crucified one, and over their own guilt” (Hengst.). The true and full commencement of the fulfilment, however, shows itself in the success which attended the preaching of Peter on the first day of Pentecost, - namely, in the fact that three thousand were pricked in their heart with penitential sorrow on account of the crucifixion of their Saviour, and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins (Act 2:37-41), and in the further results which followed the preaching of the apostles for the conversion of Israel (Acts 3-4). The fulfilment has continued with less striking results through the whole period of the Christian church, in conversions from among the Jews; and it will not terminate till the remnant of Israel shall turn as a people to Jesus the Messiah, whom its fathers crucified. On the other hand, those who continue obstinately in unbelief will see Him at last when He returns in the clouds of heaven, and shriek with despair (Rev 1:7; Mat 24:30).
according to Walter C. Kaiser, JR The Messiah in the Old Testament
see pages 223~226
Much controversy surrounds the translation of this text. The 1988 New Jewish Publication Society translation of the Tanakh(i.e., the OT) renders Zechariah 12:10 as: "but I will fill the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem with a spirit of pity and compassion; and they shall lament to Me. about those who are slain, wailing over them as over a favorite son and showing grief as over a first born." The 1896 Jewish translation, in an appendix to the Revised Version, read: "And they [i.e., the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem] shall look up to me because of Him whom they [i.e., the nations which came up against Jerusalem] have pierced.".........
...But, what of the difference between most translation and the Jewish version listed above? The most difficult fact that these Jewish translations must face in that the "me"(they will look on me) and "him" (will grieve him) both refer to the same person...
...The subject of the verb "look" and "pierce" is the same in Hebrew...
..."While a few manuscripts do read "him" instead of "me," all the ancient versions, the greater majority of Hebrew manuscripts read "me"...
..."While the Septuagint has rendered the Hebrew verb daqar as to " grieve" or to "insult," the word is never so used in the OT. It always has the sense of a literal piercing(e.g., Zec 13:3). Surely King Josiah died from a literal piercing not an insult or grieving!...
Hey Steve,
...I couldn't help but wonder if your motivation for the search was prompted by Zech 12:10 ("'et 'asher daqaru").
Irving
Irving,
That's amazing. Yes, you hit the nail on the head.
Can you shed any light on the meaning?
-Steve Miller
Detroit
I am not Irving, but I'll give a few of the typical answer till he gets back to you:
according to the Keil and Delitzsch commentary on the OT BW user created edition:
The suffix in אלי (to me) refers to the speaker. This is Jehovah, according to Zec 12:1, the creator of the heaven and the earth.את־אשׁר דּקרוּ, not “Him whom they pierced,” but simply “whom they pierced.”את, that is to say, is not governed by hibbı̄tū as a second object, but simply refers to אלי, to me, “whom they pierced,” את־אשׁר is chosen here, as in Jer 38:9, in the place of the simpleאשׁר, to mark אשׁר more clearly as an accusative, since the simple אשׁר might also be rendered “who pierced (me):” cf. Ges. §123, 2, Not. 1. Dâqar does not mean to ridicule, or scoff at, but only to pierce, thrust through, and to slay by any kind of death whatever (cf. Lam 4:9). And the context shows that here it signifies to put to death. With reference to the explanation proposed by Calvin, “whom they have harassed with insults,” Hitzig has very properly observed: “If it were nothing more than this, wherefore such lamentation over him, which, according to the use of ספד, with על governing the person, and from the similes employed, is to be regarded as a lamentation for the dead?” It is true that we have not to think of a slaying of Jehovah, the creator of the heaven and the earth, but simply of the slaying of the Maleach Jehovah, who, being of the same essence with Jehovah, became man in the person of Jesus Christ. As Zechariah repeatedly represents the coming of the Messiah as a coming of Jehovah in His Maleach to His people, he could, according to this view, also describe the slaying of the Maleach as the slaying of Jehovah. And Israel having come to the knowledge of its sin, will bitterly bewail this deed. עליו does not mean thereat, i.e., at the crime, but is used personally, over him whom they have pierced. Thus the transition from the first person (אלי) to the third (עליו) points to the fact that the person slain, although essentially one with Jehovah, is personally distinct from the Supreme God. The lamentation for the only son (yâshı̄d: cf. Amo 8:10) and for the first-born is the deepest and bitterest death-wail. The inf. abs. hâmēr, which is used in the place of the finite verb, signifies making bitter, to which mispēd is to be supplied from the previous sentence (cf. מספּד תּמרוּרים, Jer 6:26).
The historical fulfilment of this prophecy commenced with the crucifixion of the Son of God, who had come in the flesh. The words הבּיטוּ אלי את־אשׁר דּקרוּ are quoted in the Gospel of John (Joh 19:37), according to the Greek rendering ὄψονται εἰς ὅν ἐξεκέντησαν, which probably emanated not from the lxx, but from Aquila, or Theodotion, or Symmachus, as having been fulfilled in Christ, by the fact that a soldier pierced His side with a lance as He was hanging upon the cross (vid., Joh 19:34). If we compare this quotation with the fact mentioned in Joh 19:36, that they did not break any of His bones, there can be no doubt that John quotes this passage with distinct allusion to this special circumstance; only we must not infer from this, that the evangelist regarded the meaning of the prophecy as exhausted by this allusion. The piercing with the spear is simply looked upon by him as the climax of all the mortal sufferings of Christ; and even with Zechariah the piercing is simply an individualizing expression for putting to death, the instrument used and the kind of death being of very subordinate importance. This is evident from a comparison of our verse with Zec 13:7, where the sword is mentioned as the instrument employed, whereas dâqar points rather to a spear. What we have observed respecting the fulfilment of Zec 9:9 by the entry of Christ into Jerusalem, also applies to this special fulfilment, viz., that the so to speak literal fulfilment in the outward circumstances only served to make the internal concatenation of the prophecy with its historical realization so clear, that even unbelievers could not successfully deny it. Luke (Luk 23:48) indicates the commencement of the fulfilment of the looking at the slain one by these words: “And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts.” (For the smiting of the breasts, comp. Isa 32:12, ספד על שׁדים.) “The crowds, who had just before been crying out, Crucify him, here smite upon their breasts, being overpowered with the proofs of the superhuman exaltation of Jesus, and lament over the crucified one, and over their own guilt” (Hengst.). The true and full commencement of the fulfilment, however, shows itself in the success which attended the preaching of Peter on the first day of Pentecost, - namely, in the fact that three thousand were pricked in their heart with penitential sorrow on account of the crucifixion of their Saviour, and were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins (Act 2:37-41), and in the further results which followed the preaching of the apostles for the conversion of Israel (Acts 3-4). The fulfilment has continued with less striking results through the whole period of the Christian church, in conversions from among the Jews; and it will not terminate till the remnant of Israel shall turn as a people to Jesus the Messiah, whom its fathers crucified. On the other hand, those who continue obstinately in unbelief will see Him at last when He returns in the clouds of heaven, and shriek with despair (Rev 1:7; Mat 24:30).
according to Walter C. Kaiser, JR The Messiah in the Old Testament
see pages 223~226
Much controversy surrounds the translation of this text. The 1988 New Jewish Publication Society translation of the Tanakh(i.e., the OT) renders Zechariah 12:10 as: "but I will fill the House of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem with a spirit of pity and compassion; and they shall lament to Me. about those who are slain, wailing over them as over a favorite son and showing grief as over a first born." The 1896 Jewish translation, in an appendix to the Revised Version, read: "And they [i.e., the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem] shall look up to me because of Him whom they [i.e., the nations which came up against Jerusalem] have pierced.".........
...But, what of the difference between most translation and the Jewish version listed above? The most difficult fact that these Jewish translations must face in that the "me"(they will look on me) and "him" (will grieve him) both refer to the same person...
...The subject of the verb "look" and "pierce" is the same in Hebrew...
..."While a few manuscripts do read "him" instead of "me," all the ancient versions, the greater majority of Hebrew manuscripts read "me"...
..."While the Septuagint has rendered the Hebrew verb daqar as to " grieve" or to "insult," the word is never so used in the OT. It always has the sense of a literal piercing(e.g., Zec 13:3). Surely King Josiah died from a literal piercing not an insult or grieving!...