PDA

View Full Version : SBL GNT by Mike Holmes!



wie
10-28-2010, 03:44 AM
806

Wow!
Michael W. Holmes (http://www.bethel.edu/cas/dept/biblical-theological/bts-holmes) did it!
A new, critical GNT:
http://www.sblgnt.com/ (http://www.sblgnt.com/)

Some more background: ETC blog (http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2010/10/sbl-and-logos-bible-software-announce.html)

Oh this was so long overdue!
I think it is important to have more critical texts out there, the NA monopoly is/was not good.


Update: Michael Hanel created BW files: Download them here (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=649)!
There is one version without diacritics and one with them.

Jim Darlack converted the apparatus for Bibleworks: Download here (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=662)!

Michael Hanel
10-28-2010, 09:09 AM
Someone will certainly create a BW file?

The onus is on them. As long as it's free to distribute electronically, it can be done. But if they would deny permission, well then it either has to go underground or else be arranged by BibleWorks itself. But I'm hopeful that the terms will be as open as the Tregelles text project was.

wie
10-28-2010, 02:54 PM
The text is there:
http://sblgnt.com/download/

I don't have the time ATM, but it is nicely formatted, so conversion should be easy.

"In addition to granting professors and students permission to use the SBLGNT freely in their writings, the End-User License Agreement encourages the development of new electronic and print products based on the SBLGNT through a liberal permission and licensing policy."

"If you give away the SBLGNT for use with a commercial product or sell a print or electronic work containing more than 500 verses from the SBLGNT, you must annually report the number of units sold, distributed, and/or downloaded to the Society of Biblical Literature’s Rights and Permissions Office."

jthomp
10-28-2010, 06:16 PM
I wonder what the verdict will be on this text vs the current NA27 or better yet the coming (2011??) NA28?

I printed out a sample of the SBL text (John 1 - 4:15). My initial reaction, from a purely aesthetic perspective, is that the NA27 has far more useful information presented to the reader. Also the SBL apparatus seems a little light, probably due to the way it references its 4 main sources. I'd be interested in others' reactions.

I also echo the hopes of others who have expressed a desire this new text included in BW8!

Michael Hanel
10-28-2010, 10:37 PM
Okay guys, here's the first version of it (http://goo.gl/jtEL). Simply unzip to your \databases\ folder and re-start. Its version ID is SBL. Please let me know if you catch any mistakes. The conversion process could easily have produced them and I simply didn't catch them.

I do not yet have time to make the apparatus available, but it is certainly possible to do that in the future.

I also can't vouch whether this will work in BW7 because it contains diacritical marks in it and I'm not sure BW7 supports it.

wie
10-29-2010, 04:17 AM
Thank you very much Michael!

I note that some diacritical signs are not correct. E.g. the insertion and the replacement sign. E.g. in Mt 12:10 it should be replacement, not insertion.

Perhaps it would be best to remove all these signs completely.
Or produce two versions, one with the signs (and perhaps an apparatus) and one without. I personally would prefer to have the version without the signs. One can easily compare the versions using the colored Text Comparison tool.

Michael Hanel
10-29-2010, 08:55 AM
Thank you very much Michael!

I note that some diacritical signs are not correct. E.g. the insertion and the replacement sign. E.g. in Mt 12:10 it should be replacement, not insertion.

Perhaps it would be best to remove all these signs completely.
Or produce two versions, one with the signs (and perhaps an apparatus) and one without. I personally would prefer to have the version without the signs. One can easily compare the versions using the colored Text Comparison tool.

Wie, thanks for the feedback. 1. Yeah I noted that I used the wrong signs. I can easily fix it to the correct ones. They are consistently all the same diacritical mark, so it's an easy search and replace command.

2. This morning in the shower I actually had the same idea as you. I will make an alternate version of the text without any diacritics. This will be a double help. It would also make the text available to people who don't have BW8 because they no longer have to deal with diacritics.

I should be able to make these changes later this afternoon and I will let you know when I have reposted it.

Michael Hanel
10-29-2010, 09:26 AM
Perhaps it would be best to remove all these signs completely.
Or produce two versions, one with the signs (and perhaps an apparatus) and one without. I personally would prefer to have the version without the signs. One can easily compare the versions using the colored Text Comparison tool.

Wie, I've posted a version without diacritics. Let me know how it works.

It's on the blog (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=649).

wie
10-29-2010, 10:03 AM
Thank you!

One more: :)

e.g. Mark 1:42 avp 

Mark 2:10 a`marti,asŌ

Michael Hanel
10-29-2010, 10:13 AM
Thank you!

One more: :)

e.g. Mark 1:42 avp 


Oh crap. Is that only on the SBL2 version? I'll fix that this afternoon. It was a problem w my MS Word "fixing" smart quotes and I forgot to shut that off.

ISalzman
10-29-2010, 10:48 AM
Hey Michael, grateful if you could advise when the database with the diacritical marks has been fixed and posted.

Michael Hanel
10-29-2010, 12:53 PM
Hey Michael, grateful if you could advise when the database with the diacritical marks has been fixed and posted.

The update to SBL2 is live at the blog (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org), copy it over all your old files and restart BibleWorks.

Wie -- This fixes the smart quotes problem and the Mark 2:10 issue. Please let me know if you find others.

The update to SBL is also now live at the blog (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=649). It fixes a number of issues. (no doubt issues may remain, or my changes might have caused new issues. Let me know)

ISalzman
10-29-2010, 01:37 PM
Thanks much, Michael.

wie
10-29-2010, 02:26 PM
More backslashes:

Mat 7:9 a;rton Ō mh. li,qon evpidw,sei auvtw/|»
Mat 7:10 h' kai. ivcqu.n aivth,sei Ō
Mat 9:6
Mat 23:37

Mark 4:31
Mark 7:2
Mark 7:4
Mar 7:19
Mar 11:32

etc. etc. Ö

Michael Hanel
10-29-2010, 02:27 PM
More backslashes:

Mat 7:9 a;rton Ō mh. li,qon evpidw,sei auvtw/|»
Mat 7:10 h' kai. ivcqu.n aivth,sei Ō
Mat 9:6
Mat 23:37

Mark 4:31
Mark 7:2
Mark 7:4
Mar 7:19
Mar 11:32

etc. etc. …

Wie, download it again; those should be fixed in SBL and SBL2.

Wie -- For the sake of being tidy, would you mind emailing me any more mistakes as you find them? My email address is gmail.com preceded by my first name, period, last name.

jdarlack
10-29-2010, 04:50 PM
I'm in the process of trying to make the apparatus into a CHM file. I'm getting close, but the BW Create Module Index tool is not working (at least I can't get it to work right). I've sent the following email to support:


Hi BW folks,

Iím trying to compile the SBLGNT apparatus as a CHM file for BW.
Iíve got the HTML prepared: http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/module/sblgnt.zip
When I try to use the Build Module Index, the passages are only being indexed up to Ďchapterí level. (Verses are not being indexed.)
So, for instance, a reference like Mat 1:5 is being given the following code:
<a name="ref1" href="javascript:BwRef('Mat 1')" onMouseOut="javascript:BwUnPop()" onMouseOver="javascript:BwPop('Mat 1')">Mat 1</a>:5

~Jim

So if there's anyone out there who can get this to work right, have at it. :) I won't be able to get to this until after the weekend is over.

jdarlack
10-30-2010, 02:11 AM
Michael Hanel was quick to get the new SBL Greek New Testament (http://www.sblgnt.com/) (SBLGNT) compiled into a new BibleWorks version (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=649) that can display in the Browse Window along with any other version. This new version shows the diacritical marks used by Michael Holmes to indicate the presence of variants.

Now, in addition to the base text, the critical apparatus is available as a BibleWorks CHM module!


http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/sblgnt.jpg

This module works best if you have also installed the SBL Greek font (http://www.sbl-site.org/educational/BiblicalFonts_SBLGreek.aspx).

DOWNLOAD (http://goo.gl/zR0w)! — CHM module of the SBLGNT critical apparatus. To install: unzip the files and copy to your \databases\ folder and restart BibleWorks. The SBLGNT Apparatus will be linked in the Resources|Text Criticism menu, and it will also show up in your Analysis Window under the Resources Summary Tab (if there is an entry for the particular verse you are browsing).

See also Michael’s previous post (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=649) for information about the SBLGNT text available as a BibleWorks version (with (http://goo.gl/jtEL)/without (http://goo.gl/bfJK) diacritics).

The main SBL version files (with diacritical marks) and the critical apparatus (http://goo.gl/2ykm) are available in a single ZIP file (unzip all to your /databases/ folder and restart BibleWorks to install).

ISalzman
10-30-2010, 07:41 AM
Thanks Jim. Great job! (And Michael too!)

jdarlack
10-30-2010, 11:57 AM
The SBLGNT end user license agreement states:

If you give away the SBLGNT for use with a commercial product or sell a print or electronic work containing more than 500 verses from the SBLGNT, you must annually report the number of units sold, distributed, and/or downloaded to the Society of Biblical Literatureís Rights and Permissions Office.
The current web host that we use for the BibleWorks Blog (Yahoo!) does not keep track of stats for non-html files. That means I have no quick way of keeping track of how many times the files are downloaded. Does anyone out there have any ideas. I'll have a clunky workaround in place this afternoon, but I'd rather have something more 'elegant'.

jdarlack
10-30-2010, 12:33 PM
The current web host that we use for the BibleWorks Blog (Yahoo!) does not keep track of stats for non-html files. That means I have no quick way of keeping track of how many times the files are downloaded. Does anyone out there have any ideas. I'll have a clunky workaround in place this afternoon, but I'd rather have something more 'elegant'.Well, I think I've found a solution using Goo.gl (http://goo.gl), Google's URL shortening service. It allows one to keep track of the number of clicks a link gets. Hopefully that will provide a fair enough number to provide SBL.

If you happen to share links with friends to these BibleWorks files, please use either a direct link to the BibleWorks blog (here (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=662) or here (http://bibleworks.oldinthenew.org/?p=649)), or to this forum thread (http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?4715). Do not link directly to the files (unless you use the goo.gl links).

ISalzman
10-30-2010, 05:47 PM
Jim, great job! But how were you able to get the Create Module Index tool to work so that you were able to create the CHM file of the Apparatus? Several posts above, you reported problems. How were you able to eventually get it to work?

jdarlack
10-30-2010, 07:08 PM
Jim, great job! But how were you able to get the Create Module Index tool to work so that you were able to create the CHM file of the Apparatus? Several posts above, you reported problems. How were you able to eventually get it to work?Thanks! I was able to get it to work with the help of Glenn Weaver from BW. I was not using the right 'booknames' file.

jdarlack
10-30-2010, 07:22 PM
I just posted an update to the SBLGNT Apparatus. Michael Hanel had the brilliant idea of adding a search feature to the CHM file. Now you can search on different terms. For instance, you can search on "Holmes" to find all of the places where there is "a reading preferred by the editor [Michael Holmes] that is not found in any of the four primary editions."

DOWNLOAD (http://goo.gl/zR0w) updated CHM module. To install: unzip the files and copy to your \databases\ folder and restart BibleWorks.
DOWNLOAD (http://goo.gl/2ykm) the updated CHM module and version files together. To install: unzip the files and copy to your \databases\ folder and restart BibleWorks.

ISalzman
10-30-2010, 08:09 PM
Thanks! I was able to get it to work with the help of Glenn Weaver from BW. I was not using the right 'booknames' file.

I am not surprised. Glenn is the absolute best! In Yiddish, we would call him a "mensch!" (A man of great integrity and personall worth!)

pasquale
10-31-2010, 12:03 PM
Jim, Mike, great job....

I would try to build another apparatus module in chm format, I would insert after every verses the witness as a tooltip "show/hide witness".

I attach an experimental file (Matthew Cap 1-5 and Philemon).

I don't know if it is according the free license of SBLGNT. Advice me if it is unlawful.

saluti

pasquale

Michael Hanel
10-31-2010, 12:41 PM
Jim, Mike, great job....

I would try to build another apparatus module in chm format, I would insert after every verses the witness as a tooltip "show/hide witness".

I attach an experimental file (Matthew Cap 1-5 and Philemon).

I don't know if it is according the free license of SBLGNT. Advice me if it is unlawful.

saluti

pasquale

Pasquale,

Wow, that's an amazing addition. The question about its legality depends on what the source of the witnesses is. Off the top of my head I don't recognize that information, is it based on Tischendorf or is it something more recent?

DavidR
11-01-2010, 05:37 PM
I just wanted to add my thanks for the quick work that has produced the BW-ready files. It will be a few days before I have time to try them out, but I did want to note a few points.
I hope there are plans for "official" inclusion of the SBLGNT in future updates of BW.
I wonder if difficulties will arise because of the involvement (whatever exactly it is) of Logos in the SBLGNT project. Frankly, it annoys me that the SBL has chosen to affiliate itself with a commercial product in this way, implicitly endorsing Logos as a superior tool, which it is not. But given that affiliation, I hope obstacles will not be raised to BW's inclusion of the text in future updates.
I have some doubts about the SBLGNT itself. It is not in any way the same kind of endeavor as the NA/UBS editions, or the WH and Tregelles editions on which it is partly based, since (as I understand it) its editor did not, for the most part, consult original MSS, but only the printed editions. And by giving (apparently) equal consideration to the 19th-century WH and Tregelles alongside NIV (and whatever attention is given to NA), it raises the question whether 20th-century advances in text criticism have really been given proper weight.
I stress that I say all this after only a cursory check of the sample and the introduction on the SBLGNT Website (http://www.sblgnt.com/); but I think there are some valid questions here.

Michael Hanel
11-01-2010, 06:54 PM
I just wanted to add my thanks for the quick work that has produced the BW-ready files. It will be a few days before I have time to try them out, but I did want to note a few points.

I hope there are plans for "official" inclusion of the SBLGNT in future updates of BW.
I wonder if difficulties will arise because of the involvement (whatever exactly it is) of Logos in the SBLGNT project. Frankly, it annoys me that the SBL has chosen to affiliate itself with a commercial product in this way, implicitly endorsing Logos as a superior tool, which it is not. But given that affiliation, I hope obstacles will not be raised to BW's inclusion of the text in future updates.
I have some doubts about the SBLGNT itself. It is not in any way the same kind of endeavor as the NA/UBS editions, or the WH and Tregelles editions on which it is partly based, since (as I understand it) its editor did not, for the most part, consult original MSS, but only the printed editions. And by giving (apparently) equal consideration to the 19th-century WH and Tregelles alongside NIV (and whatever attention is given to NA), it raises the question whether 20th-century advances in text criticism have really been given proper weight.

I stress that I say all this after only a cursory check of the sample and the introduction on the SBLGNT Website (http://www.sblgnt.com/); but I think there are some valid questions here.

I am not altogether enthusiastic about the SBLGNT, but I think it is good that others be able to see the text and make decisions about it. The creators of it claim that it shouldn't be compared to NA27, but that is effectively what it is attempting to replace. The problem has been that there hasn't been a "critical" text of the Greek New Testament that people could use for free. The German Bible Society does not allow its text to be used freely on websites, for example. *Ideally* the answer to this would have been a textual license like that of the Tregelles project (http://www.tyndalehouse.com/tregelles/page9.html) which was this (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/3.0/). Here's my main problem with the SBLGNT license:


If you give away the SBLGNT for use with a commercial product or sell a print or electronic work containing more than 500 verses from the SBLGNT, you must annually report the number of units sold, distributed, and/or downloaded to the Society of Biblical Literature’s Rights and Permissions Office.If a product is free to distribute, then whose interest is being served by this process? For the unofficial BibleWorks blog, we had to set up a new system to count downloads (normally we don't count downloads because we have no reason to, we're not selling anything or serving any marketing programs). I don't know what licenses of commercial products typically look like. They might include clauses like this, but for a free text, this is one restriction that seems odd to say the least and I have a hunch it might prevent wider adoption. Do you think other Bible programs want to share their marketing information with Logos (which is essentially what this clause implies)? On the Evangelical Textual Criticism blog, I noticed that Rick Bennett of Accordance voiced his disappointment that this project was not one that was shared with other Bible companies, but a joint project between SBL and Logos. I too think that this is rather disappointing. If it's Logos' product, then it should be called theirs, but if SBL is involved in it, then why should they support one company over the other rather than trying to get them all to sit down at one table. Maybe I'm just being too idealistic...

As for the text itself. Only time will tell whether the scholarly community gives a thumbs up or thumbs down to it. It's far too early to know. My main critique of it is that it only necessitates further knowledge of the texts it used (the NA27, WH, NIV, and Tregelles) because it wasn't a text made from the ground up, examining manuscripts themselves, it was made by comparing these critical texts. I don't think that's a sound methodology for making the most accurate text, but if this text didn't set out to be accurate, then I suppose that's all a moot point.

As far as textual criticism goes, what's needed is not more critical texts but better access to the manuscripts on which versions like the NA27 draw upon.

Lee
11-01-2010, 07:16 PM
A big thank you to Jim and the others who have made this available. I don't know that I was that interested in having the text, but the apparatus provides a different approach that should be helpful from time to time.

jdarlack
11-01-2010, 11:22 PM
Iíve posted a new version of the SBLGNT Apparatus Module.

This update fixes a problem in Matthew 16, where headings were incorrectly labeled and indexed.

DOWNLOAD (http://goo.gl/zR0w)! To install, unzip and copy to your \databases\ folder (overwrite all old files).

Thanks to Pasquale for the error report! Please do report any errors that come along.

wie
11-02-2010, 05:47 AM
As far as textual criticism goes, what's needed is not more critical texts but better access to the manuscripts on which versions like the NA27 draw upon.
I wouldn't say so.
My opinion is that creating a critical text is the crowning achievement of a textual critics career.
It is one thing to gather evidence or discuss individual variants, but it is a completely different task, a more difficult and challenging one, to create a complete text. Everybody who tried to do this will agree.
Therefore my opinion is that textual critics should create more texts. They will learn a lot by doing so and the quality of their work will improve.

wie
11-02-2010, 07:36 AM
I just found that the double brackets in the long ending of Mk are missing.

Btw. is the NIV Greek text available for BW?

jthomp
11-02-2010, 09:56 AM
I just wanted to add my thanks for the quick work that has produced the BW-ready files. It will be a few days before I have time to try them out, but I did want to note a few points.

I hope there are plans for "official" inclusion of the SBLGNT in future updates of BW.
I was wondering that myself. Would an official release from BW somehow be incompatible with the existing files I've downloaded (haven't installed them yet)? Can we get an official response to this question from BibleWorks?

Michael Hanel
11-02-2010, 10:25 AM
I just found that the double brackets in the long ending of Mk are missing.

Btw. is the NIV Greek text available for BW?

I don't see missing double brackets here.

To my knowledge I don't think there is any Bible program that has the NIV Greek text (correct me if I'm wrong). One could create it if one knew the changes it made from an established text like NA27, but it couldn't be distributed because it is a copyright protected text.

wie
11-02-2010, 02:30 PM
Ah, I didn't have the latest version. Downloaded again, the brackets are there now.
Thanks!

wie
11-05-2010, 06:29 AM
I have written a short review of the text here:

Analysis of the SBL GNT in the Gospels (http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/texte/SBL-GNT-Analysis.pdf) (PDF)

Michael Hanel
11-05-2010, 09:22 AM
I have written a short review of the text here:

Analysis of the SBL GNT in the Gospels (http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/%7Ewie/texte/SBL-GNT-Analysis.pdf) (PDF)


Thanks for this contribution! I am wondering if we should include it a CHM. For everyone this is a brand new text and something like what you've done is some of the first work on it that does something more than simply noting WH says X, SBLGNT says Y.

I assume a textual commentary of some sort is in the works. Based on Dr. Holmes' answer on the text critical list, he obviously has done his homework and has it at hand. Otherwise we're left to guess what his rationale is, which isn't always very helpful.

pasquale
11-28-2010, 04:29 PM
Hi Mike in Matthew 1:6 are there differences in SBL and SBL2?

SBL Matthew 1:6Ἰεσσαὶ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Δαυὶδ τὸν βασιλέα. Δαυὶδ

SBL2 Matthew 1:6Ἰεσσαὶ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Δαυὶδ τὸν βασιλέα. Δαυὶδ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Σολομῶνα ἐκ τῆς τοῦ Οὐρίου,

red is omitted in SBL??!!

ciao pasquale

Michael Hanel
11-28-2010, 06:27 PM
Hi Mike in Matthew 1:6 are there differences in SBL and SBL2?

SBL Matthew 1:6Ἰεσσαὶ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Δαυὶδ τὸν βασιλέα. Δαυὶδ

SBL2 Matthew 1:6Ἰεσσαὶ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Δαυὶδ τὸν βασιλέα. Δαυὶδ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Σολομῶνα ἐκ τῆς τοῦ Οὐρίου,

red is omitted in SBL??!!

ciao pasquale

No those verses should be the same. I'm not sure why your SBL shows it omitted. This is what SBL reads on my computer at that verse

Matt 1:6 Ἰεσσαὶ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Δαυὶδ τὸν βασιλέα. Δαυὶδ ⸀δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Σολομῶνα ἐκ τῆς τοῦ Οὐρίου,

So I'm not sure why yours is different.

MGVH
11-29-2010, 02:57 PM
I have written a short review of the text here:

Analysis of the SBL GNT in the Gospels (http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/%7Ewie/texte/SBL-GNT-Analysis.pdf) (PDF)


Thanks for sharing this. I have highlighted some points of your analysis and pointed to your PDF on my blog (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2010/11/review-of-sbl-gnt-in-gospels-by-wieland.html).