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marlo
06-13-2010, 12:37 PM
Hi

I was reading some "jewish versions" of the old testament,
And , I noticed that in Gen 1:2
the word HAYTA has a meteg accent, on the Heh
I noticed it in this website too
http://bible.ort.org/books/torahd5.asp

Yet in bibleworks, and on this site
http://www.tanach.us/Tanach.xml#Gen1:2-1:2
There is no Meteg on the letter Heh

Adelphos
06-13-2010, 02:01 PM
That's because the Leningrad Codex, which the WTT is based on, does not have the meteg, whereas the Ben Chayyim Masoretic text does.

marlo
06-27-2010, 06:49 AM
That's because the Leningrad Codex, which the WTT is based on, does not have the meteg, whereas the Ben Chayyim Masoretic text does.

thanks..

are the ben asher, ben naftali

and the bomberg/ben chaim texts, available on bibleworks?

if so, how?

Adelphos
06-27-2010, 10:03 AM
Only the WTT is available in BW, and the WTT is based on the Leningrad Codex. There has been much debate whether the Leningrad Codex represents the Ben Asher or Ben Naphali text. What is not debatable is that the Leningrad Codex is in terrible shape philologically, and that it is definitely a different text than the Ben Chayyim text in numerous characteristics.

marlo
06-28-2010, 03:17 AM
Only the WTT is available in BW, and the WTT is based on the Leningrad Codex. There has been much debate whether the Leningrad Codex represents the Ben Asher or Ben Naphali text. What is not debatable is that the Leningrad Codex is in terrible shape philologically, and that it is definitely a different text than the Ben Chayyim text in numerous characteristics.

can you give me a reference for that that discusses the subject?

bkMitchell
06-28-2010, 06:49 AM
can you give me a reference for that that discusses the subject?

These are worth a quick scan on the subject:

General information on editions of the Hebrew Bible
Be, rational and take some of the information or points view found in the following sources as conjecture.


HEBREW SCRIPTURE EDITIONS: PHILOSOPHY AND PRAXIS*
http://www.emanueltov.info/docs/papers/18.Bible.ed.2008.pdf
http://pluto.huji.ac.il/~tov/BibleEditions.pdf (http://pluto.huji.ac.il/%7Etov/BibleEditions.pdf)


The Text of the Old Testament: An Introduction to the Biblia Hebraica, Second Edition
By: Ernst Wurthwein (http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/search?author=Ernst%20Wurthwein&detailed_search=1&action=Search)
Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. / 1994 / Paperback


Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible, Second Edition
By: Emanuel Tov (http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/search/1086576787?author=Emanuel%20Tov&detailed_search=1&action=Search)
Augsburg Fortress / 2001 / Hardcover



Biblia Hebraica Leningradensia (BHL)
Edited By: Aron Dotan (http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/search?author=Aron%20Dotan&detailed_search=1&action=Search)
(See page x & xi to xvii of the foreword, appendix A, and appendix D Deviation in Gemination in the Tiberian Vocalization).


Precise information on accents

Aharon Ben Asher — Diqduqe Hate'amim (Dotan Edition, 1967, 3 vol )


Rav Mordechai Breuer, Ta'ame ha-Mikra,.


Sefer diqduqe ha-te'amim le-Ravi Aharon Ben-Moshe Ben-Asher
http://hebrewbooks.org/38509


Wolf Benjamin Ze'ev ben Samson Heidenheim, Mishpete ha-Teʿamim
(http://hebrewbooks.org/7218)


Grace and Peace

Adelphos
06-28-2010, 01:41 PM
What Brian said. Wurthwein, Dotan, and Tov all give a lot of information relative to this issue, and if you are going to do OT textual criticism, their works are a must.

bkMitchell
06-29-2010, 01:08 AM
are...the bomberg/ben chaim texts, available on bibleworks?
if so, how?

No, and it would appear that most Christian Bible software has the BHS/WTT or something similar. One, little known Christian software company(link) (http://www.heavenword.com/inventory.php?id=59) does have the BHL, though.

However, if you have the time you could contribute to re-compiling the BHS to the bomberg/ben chaim text. Here is how that would work. In the BHS Gen 1:2 we find:

הָיְתָ֥ה or rather
HFY:TF71H

We then modify the above so that it now reads
הָֽיְתָ֥ה or in actuality:
HF75Y:TF71H

It really isn't very hard, it is just time consuming but one needs to make sure they have the proper texts in hand to do this. After re-compiling the texts you will have two different Hebrew Bibles to search with.

marlo
07-03-2010, 05:26 AM
great list Bkmitch.. thanks...

and regarding converting text to the bomberg.. since there must be a lot more than just the meteg on that particular hayta. It really looks something that to do, would require, not converting, but scanning with (good!) OCR. And a good text. Unfortunately, I guess if such a standard of OCR was out there, it'd be done already! Either that, or a publisher could be a bit generous and let the text be public. There are obviously many publishers with the text in electronic form.

even regarding hayutah, in the WLC, some have a meteg, some don't. In (I guess the bomberg), more hayutahs have a meteg, though still not all.

bkMitchell
07-03-2010, 09:05 PM
It really looks something that to do, would require, not converting, but scanning with (good!) OCR. And a good text. Unfortunately, I guess if such a standard of OCR was out there, it'd be done already!

There is good OCR, at least that will convert Hebrew print to Unicode/true type fonts. (there are also various Tanach/Hebrew Bibles in Unicode already)

However, the problem is in going from printed Hebrew text and Unicode to the Beta-code ASCII CCAT format required to import Hebrew/Greek texts into Bibleworks.