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View Full Version : typing Greek & Hebrew on this forum or anywhere else online...



jdarlack
05-24-2010, 12:26 PM
I noticed over at the "On Greek Text crit (http://www.bibleworks.com/forums/showthread.php?4532-On-Greek-text-crit)" thread that there has been some question about typing Greek and Hebrew on these forums (since the upgrade has dropped the ability to choose bwgrkl/bwhebb in the editor toolbar).

One thing that you can do to continue using bwgrkl and bwhebb, is to 'hand code' the font into your post. To do this you first need to change the editor you're using to type your forum post (do this by clicking the little icon to the upper-right of the editor box:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4817/screenshot006c.pngThen enter the 'coding' for whatever text you'd like in the bwgrkl/bwhebb as follows (using [ ] rather than < >).
<FONT="bwhebb">hwhy</FONT> = hwhy
<FONT="bwgrkl">kurioj</FONT> = kuriojNote: In the above example, I had to substitute [ ] for < > in order to show what the code looks like. In the forum site, ALWAYS use [ ].

An alternate way of doing things, handy for typing Greek/Hebrew Unicode on ANY website, is KeymanWeb (http://www.keymanweb.com). With KeymanWeb, you can create a bookmarklet for your web browser that creates a keyboard next to any text field that allows you to type (either with your mouse or on your keyboard) Unicode Greek and Hebrew.


http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3382/screenshot007e.png

I typed the text below using the KeymanWeb bookmarklet:


κυρίος / יהוה

The KeymanWeb bookmarklet is free, and is available from the Keyman website. You can even get a javascript that you can install on your own website that will enable any visitor to use the keyboard (limitations apply for free use).


www.keymanweb.com (http://www.keymanweb.com)

Adelphos
05-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Thanks for that link, Jim. It looks pretty interesting.

I have finally decided that if I want to type Hebrew in this forum, I just type it into Davka and then copy it with the Unicode option in Davka and it pastes perfectly into the box here, or anywhere else I've tried, for that matter.

With the Greek, I just use the BW Editor and then copy/paste that here as well.

Those methods are just easier for me. But as I said, the link you provided looks interesting. I played with for a few minutes, and now I'm going to go play with it some more.

ISalzman
06-03-2010, 07:59 PM
Thanks for that link, Jim. It looks pretty interesting.

I have finally decided that if I want to type Hebrew in this forum, I just type it into Davka and then copy it with the Unicode option in Davka and it pastes perfectly into the box here, or anywhere else I've tried, for that matter.

With the Greek, I just use the BW Editor and then copy/paste that here as well.

Those methods are just easier for me. But as I said, the link you provided looks interesting. I played with for a few minutes, and now I'm going to go play with it some more.

Hey Scott, please tell me about the Unicode copy option in Davka. Is this something new? How do I use it? I've had DavkaWriter for years, but I have been under the impression that they've done very little with Unicode.

bkMitchell
06-03-2010, 08:38 PM
... I've had DavkaWriter for years, but I have been under the impression that they've done very little with Unicode.

I'm not Scott, but I'll give this one a shot...

Salzman If you have DavkaWriter Platinum 6 then you have some unicode options ready for use. Here is a short quote taken from their product website:

"DavkaWriter can now copy text as unicode (both plain UTF-16 unicode text, and rtf with unicode), and export to unicode formats (UTF-16 unicode text files, and rtf with unicode). This allows sharing formatted Hebrew text in many unicode-aware programs." (link) (http://www.davkawriter.com/whatsnew.html)

I usually don't do any importing or exporting of Hebrew with DavkaWriter, rather I simple copy the text in DavkaWriter and then paste it into E-mail or a post on the Bibleworks forum. It seems to automatically, past in unicode format at least in my installation it, does.

ISalzman
06-03-2010, 09:02 PM
I'm not Scott, but I'll give this one a shot...

Salzman If you have DavkaWriter Platinum 6 then you have some unicode options ready for use. Here is a short quote taken from their product website:

"DavkaWriter can now copy text as unicode (both plain UTF-16 unicode text, and rtf with unicode), and export to unicode formats (UTF-16 unicode text files, and rtf with unicode). This allows sharing formatted Hebrew text in many unicode-aware programs." (link) (http://www.davkawriter.com/whatsnew.html)

I usually don't do any importing or exporting of Hebrew with DavkaWriter, rather I simple copy the text in DavkaWriter and then paste it into E-mail or a post on the Bibleworks forum. It seems to automatically, past in unicode format at least in my installation it, does.

Thanks Brian. That must be new. I've got DavkaWriter Platinum 6. I don't think it's always had the ability to export as Unicode. Perhaps this capability came with a recent update? What version do you have, pray tell? (See 'Help' - 'About') Thanks.

Irving

Adelphos
06-03-2010, 09:19 PM
Choose Edit | Copying Is For...

and then choose the Unicode option.

The Hebrew in my signature below is copied directly from DavkaWriter.

ISalzman
06-03-2010, 09:25 PM
Choose Edit | Copying Is For...

and then choose the Unicode option.

The Hebrew in my signature below is copied directly from DavkaWriter.

Thanks Scott. What version do you have? (See 'Help' - 'About')

By the way, I was at Auschwitz about a week and a half ago.

Adelphos
06-03-2010, 09:27 PM
I have Platinum 6, which appears to be the last serious program they wrote for Windows. Everything since then has been for Mac.

Never been to Auschwitz, but I spent an entire day at Dachau once. It's a life-changing experience to be sure.

bkMitchell
06-03-2010, 09:27 PM
For those on limited funds:

Microsoft Windows freely provides on-screen keyboards for both Windows XP (see here) (http://www.bltt.org/software/xposk/osk_xp.htm) or (here) (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/accessibility/oskturnonuse.mspx) and in Windows 7 (see here) (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows7/Type-without-using-the-keyboard-On-Screen-Keyboard)one can simply touch type with their mouse cursor or finger if they have need too.

And, let's not forget IME (link for 7 version) (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/Add-or-change-an-input-language) or (link XP version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wZcMknwOy4) with this tool one can quickly change one's input language so he/she can type in any language of his/her choice and it works great in conjunction with the On-screen keyboards Microsoft Windows provides in XP, Vista, and Windows 7.

There are also Open Source Alternatives to commercial word processors:

(1) Open Office (link) (http://www.openoffice.org/)
Can type in unicode Hebrew or Greek.
(this program is popular in both Israel and Palestine, too)

(2)Abiword(link) (http://abisource.com/)
Also, types in unicode Hebrew or Greek

And, last but not least!
(3)The BibleWorks Editor
It can type directly into Hebrew or Greek Unicode, as well as BW's own special fonts too.
In Bible Works 7 the editor really improved a great deal , and now in version 8 it
is almost a word processor in it's own right.

ISalzman
06-03-2010, 09:54 PM
I have Platinum 6, which appears to be the last serious program they wrote for Windows. Everything since then has been for Mac.

Never been to Auschwitz, but I spent an entire day at Dachau once. It's a life-changing experience to be sure.

תּוֹדָה רַבּה, סכּוֹת


Done with Davka. Not perfect though. I had to delete the qametz under the bet, since it wouldn't line up under the bet.

By the way, one of the choices under 'Edit' - 'Copying is for' was for e-mail. When would I ever use that? Wouldn't Unicode work just as well for e-mail?

Dachau is in Germany, isn't it? I don't believe Dachau was a death camp though. Auschwitz was the Nazis' premier and main death camp.

bkMitchell
06-03-2010, 09:54 PM
...I've got DavkaWriter Platinum 6. I don't think it's always had the ability to export as Unicode...What version do you have...

I have a license for version 6, and as far as I know version 6 has always had the ability to save, export, and cut and past to unicode. In fact unicode was one of their selling points.

ISalzman
06-03-2010, 10:14 PM
Hey Brian,

In DavkaWriter, one of the choices under 'Edit' - 'Copying is for' is for e-mail. When would I ever use that? Wouldn't Unicode work just as well for e-mail?

bkMitchell
06-04-2010, 12:56 AM
Wouldn't Unicode work just as well for e-mail?

Sure, but only if the recipient of your e-mail has unicode Hebrew fonts installed on his/her/their computer. To make matters more complicated, not all unicode Hebrew font/format is the same.

Take for example SBL set, it has some special characters for accents and marks that other simple unicode fonts used for modern Hebrew, might not have in their set.

Things can get even more messy if you are dealing with HTML and using Hebrew fonts(rather embedding them into the document). If are sure that your recipient has Windows XP or higher then it is more likely that they will have unicode Hebrew installed on their system, but if not there maybe some hurdles to over come.

Also, some people simply do not enjoy or like to compose their messages in an E-mail editor. For, those individuals DavkaWriter 6 provides an easy way to craft messages in it's Word processor without having to do so else where.

Adelphos
06-04-2010, 11:16 AM
Dachau was very definitely a death camp. You could still see the forms of the bodies burned into the ovens. There was also a macabre entrance to the ovens. That is, there was a very nicely manicured garden pathway through a little idyllic stretch of nature before reaching the ovens, which made the victims think they were going to a nice place.

There was also a little plaque in the garden, written in German, which stated, "Tell them how we died here."

Yes, Dachau is in Germany, just outside of Munich, and to Germany's credit, they have done an outstanding job of maintaning it.

With regard to your thanking me in Hebrew --


על לא דבר

ISalzman
06-04-2010, 11:43 AM
Dachau was very definitely a death camp. You could still see the forms of the bodies burned into the ovens. There was also a macabre entrance to the ovens. That is, there was a very nicely manicured garden pathway through a little idyllic stretch before reaching the ovens, which made the victims think they were going to a nice place.

There was also a little plaque in the garden, written in German, which stated, "Tell them how we died here."

Yes, Dachau is in Germany, just outside of Munich, and to the German's credit, they have done an outstanding job of maintaning it.

With regard to your thanking me in Hebrew --


על לא דבר

Thanks. Wikipedia actually states that there is no evidence that people died at Dachau from reasons other than starvation, disease, shooting etc. But then, later in the article, they furnish a picture of the gas chamber there. Go figure!

We were told by our guide that people being led to the gas chamber were told to remember where they left their clothes before entering the chamber so that they could claim the same after exiting the chamber (which they were led to believe were showers). Of course, the Nazis knew full well that their victims would never again need their clothes. Admittedly, the Nazis wanted to prevent widespread revolt and pandemonium; for that reason, they gave their victims the impression that they would emerge from the chamber alive, that it was no more than a shower, and that they would need their clothes again. Nevertheless, there is something very cruel and macabre about their methods. They were absolutely clean, scientific, and calculated about their killing. Nothing less that demonic. Another cruel fact is that the Nazis actually made their victims pay their train fare before herding them onto the cattle car transports, where they couldn't even sit once inside since they were packed wall-to-wall with humanity.

Adelphos
06-04-2010, 11:57 AM
Thanks. Wikipedia actually states that there is no evidence that people died at Dachau from reasons other than starvation, disease, shooting etc. But then, later in the article, they furnish a picture of the gas chamber there. Go figure!

That's because the people there in the town of Dachau are still extremely sensitive to the issue. If you go to Dachau, you will notice that the camp is so much a part of the town itself that it would be impossible to not know that nefarious things were going on there, and yet that is what the townspeople maintained. They do have a point to a degree, because to inquire would have probably gotten them shot, or imprisoned themselves.

And it was the U. S. Army, not the Russians or Brits, who liberated Dachau, and although it's been quite awhile since I read up on it, the Americans who liberated the camp were utterly disgusted with what they found.

Having spent the whole day there, and having seen every inch of it (even though the barrackes were actually rebuilt models of the originals), and having thus got the feel for it, there isn't a doubt in my mind that people were executed at Dachau as at Auschwitz.

Either way, what's the difference between poising a person or just flat letting them starve to death intentionally and then incinerating their corpse?

Answer: none.

And of course, the adage has since then been "never forget", but that is exactly what's happening -- i.e., by and large the world is forgetting -- because the incipent stage of the phychological holocaust against the Jews that began in 1930's Germany is already repeating itself today against Israel every bit as menacingly as it did in 1930's Germany, and just like then, how few can actually recognize it for what it already is.

ISalzman
06-04-2010, 01:08 PM
And of course, the adage has since then been "never forget", but that is exactly what's happening -- i.e., by and large the world is forgetting -- because the incipent stage of the phychological holocaust against the Jews that began in 1930's Germany is already repeating itself today against Israel every bit as menacingly as it did in 1930's Germany, and just like then, how few can actually recognize it for what it already is.

Sad, but very true. Rightly did Jeremiah prophesy of a future "time of Jacob's trouble."

MGVH
06-05-2010, 03:57 AM
Partly inspired by this thread, I have just finished an exhaustive (and exhausting) overview of all the ways I know of typing in Hebrew on a computer.

Typing in Hebrew (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2010/06/typing-biblical-hebrew.html)

ISalzman
06-05-2010, 08:18 AM
Partly inspired by this thread, I have just finished an exhaustive (and exhausting) overview of all the ways I know of typing in Hebrew on a computer.

Typing in Hebrew (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2010/06/typing-biblical-hebrew.html)

Thanks Mark and all for your input. But, you know, the easiest solution to all this would be that Hebrew and Greek fonts would be made available to this forum like they used to be in the past. Prior to the implementation of the new Forums, Hebrew and Greek fonts were available from the drop down list of available fonts. That is no longer the case. Why? And why couldn't they just be added? That would be the simplest solution and simplest case scenario here.

bkMitchell
06-07-2010, 04:27 AM
Partly inspired by this thread, I have just finished an exhaustive (and exhausting) overview of all the ways I know of typing in Hebrew on a computer.

Typing in Hebrew (http://bibleandtech.blogspot.com/2010/06/typing-biblical-hebrew.html)

As, always thank you for your effort, and desire to inform!

POST SCRIPT:
There is one thing I think you should mention:
The Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator.(Link) (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx)