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ISalzman
04-02-2010, 07:34 PM
Scott, where are you buddy? These forums are not the same without you! You're missed.

Irving

Adelphos
04-02-2010, 08:04 PM
Scott, where are you buddy? These forums are not the same without you! You're missed.

Hey, Irv. Actually, I'm reading about all the signs that are being posted on buses and roadsides and shops and buildings and so forth in eretz Israel calling for the building of the Third Temple. Looking with relish, I might add... :cool:

ISalzman
04-02-2010, 08:18 PM
Hey, Irv. Actually, I'm reading about all the signs that are being posted on buses and roadsides and shops and buildings and so forth in eretz Israel calling for the building of the Third Temple. Looking with relish, I might add... :cool:

Were you there too? These are definitely interesting times. Things were a little tense when I was there recently. There was rioting on the Temple Mount and in East Jerusalem (Some Arab Israelis used the occasion of the dedication of the "Hurva" (Destruction) synagogue in the Jewish Quarter of the Old City as a pretense to riot on account of the "supposed plans of Israel to start building on the Temple Mount." Of course, the latter is completely fabricated. In addition, the Obama administration has been applying great pressure of the Netanyahu government. It was quite sad actually. But, yes, it seems like there is certainly interest in a third temple. And if 2 Thess 2 is to be believed (i.e., that the Antichrist will go into the Temple and declare himself to be god) - and I believe 2 Thess 2 is the Word of God! - then the scenario that the Temple will be rebuilt is not unreasonable. Good to see you back in the Forums, Scott!

jimofbentley
04-02-2010, 08:53 PM
But, yes, it seems like there is certainly interest in a third temple. And if 2 Thess 2 is to be believed (i.e., that the Antichrist will go into the Temple and declare himself to be god) - and I believe 2 Thess 2 is the Word of God! - then the scenario that the Temple will be rebuilt is not unreasonable. Good to see you back in the Forums, Scott!

Unless, of course, one views "the temple of God" reference in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 to be to the church, as some people do, based upon 2 Corinthians 6:16.

By the way, I was also wondering what had happened to Adelphos. Glad to know you are all right and enjoying yourself.

Adelphos
04-02-2010, 08:59 PM
Things are going to heat up and speed along a great deal faster from here on out than most people think. Like the rolling stone that gathers no moss, but goes faster and faster with each revolution, so will it be regarding Israel and world events as depicted in the Bible. The Word of God is plain not only in the truth that it teaches, but also in the timing of the events it prophesies of.

At least for those with eyes to see with, and ears to ear with. The rest are content to go on questioning the promise of his coming and therefore are placed under judicial blindness by the Father himself.

That's one of the reasons why the Lord Jesus rebuked those in his day who did not recognize hiim, for the timing of the Messiah's first advent could not have possibly been any clearer to one who truly understood the Scriptures, such as Simeon and Anna.

So it is today.

"O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?" Matthew 16:3

And thus, all who attempt to rob Israel of her inheritance which was given her by direct fiat from God in Mount Sinai (Leviticus 25:23), indeed, ALL who rise up against Isreal either militarily OR diplomatically with respect to her inheritance, especially from here on out, will find that Jehovah Elohim, even the Lord Jesus Christ, has a grave quarrel with them.

Guess who will win that quarrel?

ISalzman
04-02-2010, 09:10 PM
Unless, of course, one views "the temple of God" reference in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 to be to the church, as some people do, based upon 2 Corinthians 6:16.

By the way, I was also wondering what had happened to Adelphos. Glad to know you are all right and enjoying yourself.

Hey Jim, your point is duly noted. And I believe in always respecting those who hold to different opinions. But I think Jesus' words in Matthew 24:15 are quite instructive. He said "When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place..." Though his remarks are prophetic, he is all the while using an analogy from Daniel who spoke prophetically of Antiochus Epiphanes who erected a statue of himself to the Greek god Zeus in the Holy Temple in 168 BCE. Since the first abomination of desolation was erected in the literal Temple, there is no good reason to assume the second won't also be. Daniel 9:24-27 also speaks prophetically of the "prince who is to come" who will put a stop to sacrifices in the "middle of the week." If this refers to the tribulation period (the seventieth week of Daniel), as I believe it does, then the Temple must be standing for the sacrifices to be stopped. Also, John the revelator, speaks of the Temple in Revelation 11. All in all, I believe the Temple will be rebuilt in accordance with biblical prophecy. And it is interesting to note, as Scott has, that there is much preparation and anticipation of this in some quarters in Israel today. But, again, I have no interest in tearing down your position if you hold differently. We are brothers in Messiah, co-members in his redeemed community of Jew and Gentile in him. I fully respect your right to disagree with me.

Sansom48
04-02-2010, 11:29 PM
good to have you back adelphos.

jimofbentley
04-02-2010, 11:40 PM
Hey Jim, your point is duly noted . . . I fully respect your right to disagree with me.

Thanks, Irving. Although I did not mention that I personally held that opinion, your tolerance is gracious.

We do hold different opinions on the return of Christ. Well, not that HE WILL return, just on the timing, the events surrounding His return, and the interpretation of what the Scriptures say and mean regarding that return.

But so long as we can do that in the love of Christ, all is well.

ISalzman
04-03-2010, 07:49 AM
Thanks, Irving. Although I did not mention that I personally held that opinion, your tolerance is gracious.

We do hold different opinions on the return of Christ. Well, not that HE WILL return, just on the timing, the events surrounding His return, and the interpretation of what the Scriptures say and mean regarding that return.

But so long as we can do that in the love of Christ, all is well.

Amen, Jim! I remember when I first got to bible school many, many years ago, the big thing among the students was theological jockeying and debate. It was almost a sport. Though I am comfortable in my own positions, I see no need to tear others down over differently-held doctrinal positions. It is not worth the damage it does to our fellowship. We ought to major more on preserving the bond of unity in the Spirit. And the other thing is, we should always endeavor to maintain a sense of teachableness. Believers should not be above the need to change their positions when they are not scripturally justified. I have a sermon (at least one) that I wrote many years ago that I could not preach today, since I have come to a different interpretation on the passage. Or better, I would preach that (or those) sermon(s) differently today. I always value the motto on the front page of our congregation's constitution, though it is by no means unique or original to us. It reads: "In the essentials, unity; in the non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity." That has sort of become my credo. At least, I aspire to live by those words. Blessings to you down under, Jim!

jimofbentley
04-05-2010, 09:08 AM
I have a sermon (at least one) that I wrote many years ago that I could not preach today, since I have come to a different interpretation on the passage. Or better, I would preach that (or those) sermon(s) differently today.

When I first started in church ministry - 25+ years ago now (where did the time go?) I used to keep all of my old sermons, neatly filed in my filing cabinet.

A couple of years after I had finished at my first church, I pulled some of them out - read through them - cringed greatly at some of the things I said and how I said them - and promptly threw them all away.

ISalzman
04-05-2010, 09:41 AM
When I first started in church ministry - 25+ years ago now (where did the time go?) I used to keep all of my old sermons, neatly filed in my filing cabinet.

A couple of years after I had finished at my first church, I pulled some of them out - read through them - cringed greatly at some of the things I said and how I said them - and promptly threw them all away.

Wow, that's extreme! I guess the good thing about digitalized (i.e., computerized) sermons is that you can always make electronic changes to them. That way you can keep the good and make changes to the bad. I've got a body of work saved on my PC (almost 200 sermons). I could never just delete them, since they amount to thousands of hours of work on my part. In addition, I would use them again if and when I moved on to my next church congregation. And the good thing is that I can always refresh them and make changes. But they are literally the product of thousands of hours of work.

jimofbentley
04-06-2010, 07:23 PM
Wow, that's extreme! I guess the good thing about digitalized (i.e., computerized) sermons is that you can always make electronic changes to them. That way you can keep the good and make changes to the bad. I've got a body of work saved on my PC (almost 200 sermons). I could never just delete them, since they amount to thousands of hours of work on my part. In addition, I would use them again if and when I moved on to my next church congregation. And the good thing is that I can always refresh them and make changes. But they are literally the product of thousands of hours of work.

The primary reason I threw the lot out was to force myself to relook at the Scriptures on that topic or book when I preached on it again. I didn't want to depend upon what I had done, and I didn't want to just fall in line with my previous conclusions. I wanted to "search the Scriptures" so ensure that I understood what the Bible said, not simply to confirm conclusions that I had previously made. (This is just me, and is by no means meant to be a slight upon what others may do).

I have everything on computer now, and I do refer to it from time to time. But, even so, in many ways I still prefer to start from scratch each time. Read. Translate. Exegete. Listen to what the Scriptures say. I have found it much more enriching to myself and to my preaching - and the people in the church have indicated that they have been greatly blessed by it.

Of course, I did use a computer back then as well, but my very old Commodore 64 died a long time ago, and none of those files would be readable now anyway.

ISalzman
04-06-2010, 10:53 PM
Good for you, Jim. I respect that. I'm not altogether different. I will often test my conclusions today against those which I may have reached years ago.