PDA

View Full Version : Bible Works in church (continued)



Andrew Fincke
12-10-2009, 11:50 AM
I snuck the laptop in for an evening service and sat inconspicuously in the first row. The tall pastor standing at the elevated podium would never notice the small laptop cover jutting surreptitiously in his direction! As he explained James 4:1-2 about fighting and greed and illustrated by means of the example of his and his brother's wranglings over presents beneath the Christmas tree, I remembered with gratitude the lesson instilled in me of the importance of good behavior at the gift season. When he drew a distinction between the aorist imperative υποταγητε (verse 7) and the allegedly present imperative εγγισατε (verse 8), I lost him, since the analysis window for both verbs read "verb imperative aorist passive 2nd person plural". Remembering Adelphos' advice from the first Bible Works in the Church thread, I shook the pastor's hand when exiting and complimented him on his sermon.

Adelphos
12-10-2009, 12:07 PM
Remembering Adelphos' advice from the first Bible Works in the Church thread, I shook the pastor's hand when exiting and complimented him on his sermon.

Ah... you disappoint me, Andrew. I thought you would have marched right up to the pulpit and corrected the pastor straightway. :p

Andrew Fincke
12-10-2009, 09:51 PM
I thought so, too. His name is Mr. Ken McHeard, and the email is ken@1stpreschurch.org. I guess he meant to say, "The difference between aorist imperative and present imperative is lost in English translation, so I'm taking liberties in my exegesis", viz. "be subjected!" means "stay subjected!" with emphasis on duration while "draw near!" means "keep attempting to draw near!" with emphasis on the not yet attained. Bible Works morphology analysis nailed his argument and wrecked the otherwise decent sermon.

Michael Hanel
12-10-2009, 11:02 PM
I thought so, too. His name is ....


I guess I'm not sure why this discussion isn't in the non-BibleWorks discussion since it has more to do with preaching than it does with how BibleWorks functions, but that's not really my main objection right now. My main objection is why you would even bring this specific case up in this manner and publicly list the guy's name and email address. Am I (or others) supposed to email him and correct his grammar or chastise his exegesis? Are you trying to embarrass him or rebuke him publicly? I don't know if it's your church, but if you're trying to make it a personal issue, talk to the pastor or the elders. At first I thought your post was satirical, but I can see now you're quite serious.

ISalzman
12-10-2009, 11:37 PM
I thought so, too. His name is Mr. Ken McHeard, and the email is ken@1stpreschurch.org. I guess he meant to say, "The difference between aorist imperative and present imperative is lost in English translation, so I'm taking liberties in my exegesis", viz. "be subjected!" means "stay subjected!" with emphasis on duration while "draw near!" means "keep attempting to draw near!" with emphasis on the not yet attained. Bible Works morphology analysis nailed his argument and wrecked the otherwise decent sermon.

For your sake, I hope he doesn't frequent these forums.

Adelphos
12-10-2009, 11:41 PM
I guess I'm not sure why this discussion isn't in the non-BibleWorks discussion since it has more to do with preaching than it does with how BibleWorks functions, but that's not really my main objection right now. My main objection is why you would even bring this specific case up in this manner and publicly list the guy's name and email address. Am I (or others) supposed to email him and correct his grammar or chastise his exegesis? Are you trying to embarrass him or rebuke him publicly? I don't know if it's your church, but if you're trying to make it a personal issue, talk to the pastor or the elders. At first I thought your post was satirical, but I can see now you're quite serious.

Hence my taking issue with him at the very beginning of this thread. I'm sure the pastor can expect extra spam now, at the very least. Also at the very least, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the funcitionality of BibleWorks, per se, which is why I would have slotted this thread out of here and into the non-BibleWorks section the very first day it was posted.

This whole thread has been in bad taste in the motivation of its author from its inception.

Andrew Fincke
12-10-2009, 11:59 PM
I guess you're right, guys. Pastors have a lot more on their minds than making perfect sermons. Bible Works is for scholars - and the timkerers with maps and flash cards - not for the church pew. Sorry, Ken, aboutr divulging your name. Even Billy Graham makes blunders - all the more since the death of his wife.

Mark Eddy
12-11-2009, 12:38 AM
Andrew can remove his offense and edit his second post to remove the name and address of the pastor. Then he can go and tell him his fault just between the two of them. Reconcilation and forgiveness are wonderful gifts of God.
Mark Eddy

Andrew Fincke
12-11-2009, 09:41 AM
How do I edit a previously posted message, Mark? A good time to make amends will be at the celbration of K--'s ministry next Friday at 7 in the Sunday School building. Since K--'s specialty is counseling, he can advise me on the proper place of Bible Works in the church.

bobvenem
12-11-2009, 09:51 AM
How do I edit a previously posted message

Simple. Click the "Edit" button next to the "Quote" button on your post, and have at it.

BTW, I deleted my previous post; don't want to be seen as an enabler :eek:

ISalzman
12-11-2009, 10:01 AM
I guess you're right, guys. Pastors have a lot more on their minds than making perfect sermons. Bible Works is for scholars - and the timkerers with maps and flash cards - not for the church pew. Sorry, Ken, aboutr divulging your name. Even Billy Graham makes blunders - all the more since the death of his wife.

While, I believe, you have been duly harsh on your pastor in this thread, I still think pastors should aim to be grammatically and exegetically correct in their sermons. There need not be a distinction between pastors and scholars. I'm a pastor and I aim to be as grammatically and exegetically correct as I can in my sermons. But like everyone else, pastors are human and fallible and don't get everything correct. And, to be sure, we probably all know pastors who probably don't have sufficient training to be in the pulpit in the first place. If I were a lay church goer in the pews, and I sat under the teaching of a man who butchered the grammar and exegesis week after week, I would seriously have to consider going elsewhere. At the same time, some pastors are so gifted in other areas (like shepherding, encouraging, and loving their people) that their shortcomings in areas like sermon preaching can be overlooked by many folks. It all depends upon who you are and what you value. If you can live with a less than great preacher, then enjoy him for who he is and what giftings he does have.

By the way, as a pastor, I don't mind at all if people come to me after one of my sermons with questions, critiques, challenges, etc. I am fortunate to have guys in my pews who are former pastors and seminarians themselves. One brother just got his PhD in OT from a very reputable seminary. We have great conversations about the scriptures and about the passages upon which I preach. We challenge each other, which, in my estimation, is how it ought to be. Speaking the truth in love ....

Precha1
12-11-2009, 12:00 PM
By the way, as a pastor, I don't mind at all if people come to me after one of my sermons with questions, critiques, challenges, etc. I am fortunate to have guys in my pews who are former pastors and seminarians themselves. One brother just got his PhD in OT from a very reputable seminary. We have great conversations about the scriptures and about the passages upon which I preach. We challenge each other, which, in my estimation, is how it ought to be. Speaking the truth in love ....

The truth, when spoken in love, makes a significant difference.